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Old 08-07-2015, 02:54 PM   #19
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Originally Posted by Tranio View Post
Unfortunately, I was there, Foxhound.
Well yes, I guess being in the U.K. could be termed "unfortunate", but all the things considered I'm surprised that you're willing to advance that argument.



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Sgt Pepper and Satanic Majesty's are albums by British, not north American bands.
So.... Does that mean they can only be compared in a U.K. context?

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To say that in the sixties you preferred either The Rolling Stones or The Beatles, was just a saying.
Indeed. Just a saying that wasn't at all applicable on this side of the Atlantic.

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Albums by The Dave Clark Five and The Monkees did not rival those by The Beatles or Rolling Stones in the UK. Only a couple of Clark's early albums sold well.
The Dave Clark Five were bigger than the Stones on this side of the Atlantic until the Stones released Satisfaction. These magazines from 1964 are telling:





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The Monkees were an American construct (with Davy Jones from Coronation Street) to rival The Beatles in America. Again, in the UK, their albums did not have the consistent success of those by The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.
Agreed. But the Monkees were nonetheless huge in North America, annoyingly so. I know. I witnessed it.

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Old 08-07-2015, 03:08 PM   #20
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

I certainly agree with you other fellows though that Keith doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

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This is just Keith being Keith. No big deal, really. I'm sure he's not the only person in the world that doesn't like Sgt. Pepper.
Precisely. That's not the first time, nor will it be the last time, that Keith will be completely out to lunch. I mean what do you expect? He's a cantankerous old curmudgeon who's constantly being badgered by newspaper reporters looking for a quote/story. Like you say, it's no big deal. And it's certainly no reason to run down a band with the legacy of the Stones.

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Old 08-07-2015, 03:39 PM   #21
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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I certainly agree with you other fellows though that Keith doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

But that's not the first time, nor will it be the last time, that Keith is completely out to lunch. I mean what do you expect? He's a cantankerous old curmudgeon who's constantly being badgered by newspaper reporters looking for a quote/story. That's no reason to run down a band with the legacy of the Stones though.

But Keith Richards is the Stones, musically speaking.
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:45 PM   #22
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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But Keith Richards is the Stones, musically speaking.
Correction: Was the Stones.
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Old 08-07-2015, 05:33 PM   #23
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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But Keith Richards is the Stones, musically speaking.
1. Well, I think Brian, Mick and the other fellows have had something to do with the Stones' music/sound over the years as well.

2. Admittedly though Keith is just a bit past his prime. It seems to happen to the best of them. And while I'm not holding my breath for any new records on par with Satisfaction, most of the fans who saw them on their recent tour think they have enough left in the tank to continue what they've been doing for a while yet.

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Old 08-07-2015, 05:46 PM   #24
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Correction: Was the Stones.
Became the Stones after Brian Jones was drowned by…pick a version of that story. I'll go with rambunctious friends/fans.
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Old 08-09-2015, 03:09 PM   #25
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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...the current trend of criticising Sgt Pepper and it is unfortunate that Richards and RS magazine have jumped on the bandwagon.
Huh? What current trend? There's no such thing.

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The Rolling Stones covered several Lennon-McCartney songs....
You're very wrong. The Stones only recorded one Lennon-McCartney song and they didn't cover any.

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The erroneous comment about 'roots' is typical of The Rolling Stones.
Huh?! How is commenting "typical" of the Stones? What's typical of the Stones is playing rock music. They have a very long history of doing that and precisely that.

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Old 08-09-2015, 03:20 PM   #26
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Both The Dave Clark Five ... were predominantly singles bands here....
Not surprising but also somewhat "unfair". The Dave Clark Five were at the height of their success in 1964-65 and prior to 1966 all bands were predominantly singles bands. See this thread:

http://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?t...ht=Rubber+Soul

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Old 08-09-2015, 06:28 PM   #27
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

I'm always surprised to see The Dave Clark Five held in such high esteem, and compared with the likes of The Beatles.

They were just another of many pop bands at the time that were really one trick ponies. They sold a lot of records, but so did The Bay City Rollers.
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:42 AM   #28
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

The Beatles never did anything for me.

But this seems like a very silly thing to say.
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:48 PM   #29
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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I'm always surprised to see The Dave Clark Five held in such high esteem, and compared with the likes of The Beatles.
There was nothing surprising about that comparison. The Dave Clark Five were the second British Invasion band to appear on the Ed Sullivan Show. They appeared in March of 1964 for two weeks after the Beatles appeared for three straight weeks in February of 1964. They would ultimately make eighteen appearances on the Ed Sullivan Show, more than any other British Invasion band. Glad All Over ended the reign of Beatles' singles on the top of the hit charts in the U.K. and in many North American markets. The Beatles were the only band with more chart success in North America than the Dave Clark Five until mid-1965. It was therefore very natural to compare the two. I remember radio phone-in polls where the Beatles would get somewhere between 60% and 70% of the vote against the Dave Clark Five.

And yes, the Beatles were aware that the Dave Clark Five were rivals of theirs for fan attention in North America. I read in a book somewhere that either Paul or John once criticized Ringo's drumming on a piece by saying he sounded like Dave Clark! Yes, the Beatles are now part of the pantheon of legendary rock gods but keep in mind that they didn't feel at all secure in their position at the top of the rock heap in 1964-65. After all, rock history to that point was littered with artists who had made a big splash and then rapidly faded. Only Elvis Presley had shown real multi-year staying power to that point and the Beatles had supplanted him. It wasn't until 1967-68 after the release of Rubber Soul, Revolver, Strawberry Fields Forever and Sgt. Pepper's that the Beatles felt confident that they'd carved out a permanent niche in rock history.

And it took the Rolling Stones another few years before they felt comfortable that they'd built up a legacy. That's why they continued to push so hard until 1972.

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Old 08-11-2015, 03:14 AM   #30
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

The DC5 gave the Beatles a run for their money for a while in 1964-65, but the Beatles' music kept improving and maturing, and DC5's didn't, and now they're nearly forgotten.
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:17 AM   #31
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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You're very wrong. The Stones only recorded one Lennon-McCartney song and they didn't cover any.


It is not possible to be very wrong; it is either incorrect or it is not. My posts in this thread are correct, although, in fairness to you, your remarks appear more concerned with rhetoric than with accuracy.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:30 AM   #32
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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It is not possible to be very wrong; it is either incorrect or it is not. My posts in this thread are correct, although, in fairness to you, your remarks appear more concerned with rhetoric than with accuracy.
Well said.
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Old 08-11-2015, 03:04 PM   #33
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Exclamation Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Originally Posted by Tranio View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhound View Post
Quote:
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The Rolling Stones covered several Lennon-McCartney songs....
You're very wrong. The Stones only recorded one Lennon-McCartney song and they didn't cover any.
It is not possible to be very wrong; it is either incorrect or it is not. My posts in this thread are correct....
Alright. Name some of the Lennon-McCartney songs that the Stones covered.



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...although, in fairness to you, your remarks appear more concerned with rhetoric than with accuracy.
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Originally Posted by OxfordDictionaries
rhetoric

the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
Thank you for at least acknowledging that my remarks are effective/persuasive.

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Old 08-12-2015, 09:46 AM   #34
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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There was nothing surprising about that comparison. The Dave Clark Five were the second British Invasion band to appear on the Ed Sullivan Show. They appeared in March of 1964 for two weeks after the Beatles appeared for three straight weeks in February of 1964. They would ultimately make eighteen appearances on the Ed Sullivan Show, more than any other British Invasion band. Glad All Over ended the reign of Beatles' singles on the top of the hit charts in the U.K. and in many North American markets. The Beatles were the only band with more chart success in North America than the Dave Clark Five until mid-1965. It was therefore very natural to compare the two. I remember radio phone-in polls where the Beatles would get somewhere between 60% and 70% of the vote against the Dave Clark Five.

And yes, the Beatles were aware that the Dave Clark Five were rivals of theirs for fan attention in North America. I read in a book somewhere that either Paul or John once criticized Ringo's drumming on a piece by saying he sounded like Dave Clark! Yes, the Beatles are now part of the pantheon of legendary rock gods but keep in mind that they didn't feel at all secure in their position at the top of the rock heap in 1964-65. After all, rock history to that point was littered with artists who had made a big splash and then rapidly faded. Only Elvis Presley had shown real multi-year staying power to that point and the Beatles had supplanted him. It wasn't until 1967-68 after the release of Rubber Soul, Revolver, Strawberry Fields Forever and Sgt. Pepper's that the Beatles felt confident that they'd carved out a permanent niche in rock history.

And it took the Rolling Stones another few years before they felt comfortable that they'd built up a legacy. That's why they continued to push so hard until 1972.

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The DC5 gave the Beatles a run for their money for a while in 1964-65, but the Beatles' music kept improving and maturing, and DC5's didn't, and now they're nearly forgotten.
The above answer sums it up. Dave Clark were popular for a short time, as many other similar groups were, but as far as talent goes, they were several leagues below the Beatles, and quickly sank without trace, because they didn't have another level.

Ever since then, there have been pop groups that have huge success for a year or two, and then disappear, because they have nowhere else to go.

Gerry and the Pacemakers looked serious rivals to the Beatles over here to begin with, but they were in the same category as the DC5, just getting what they could out of the current trend.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:25 AM   #35
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Not true. The Stones were very much trendsetters in the mid to late sixties. It was the Stones and not the Beatles who set the template for every garage rock band for a generation of high school students. And the punk rock movement started as an attempt to emulate those garage rock bands and bring back the two and a half minute single.

This caught my attention. I am very curious. Why would you think that?
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:20 PM   #36
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Re: Keith Richards: The Beatles' 'Sgt. Pepper's' Was 'Rubbish'

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Not true. The Stones were very much trendsetters in the mid to late sixties. It was the Stones and not the Beatles who set the template for every garage rock band for a generation of high school students. And the punk rock movement started as an attempt to emulate those garage rock bands and bring back the two and a half minute single.

I was a high school student at the time, and in my little corner of the world, the template was equal parts Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds, and Animals. Actually, the latter three probably more so than the Beatles. We loved them, but they were too safe. My parents even liked them. We were after something a little more relevant to our teenage angst.
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