Progressive Rock...?
 

Is there a progressive rock thread or sub forum.....?
I'm a fan of classic rock being an old timer but over the years prog has become my go to genre.
I tried to join the 'original classic rock' forum but no one ever confirmed my membership even though my user name came upon the board I received no confirmation email, I even e-mailed them..no answer at all. So I joined here but so far no response here either to my post in the 'welcome' area.
Forums simply aren't what they used to be.....:frown:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

1. This board is actually the successor to the original Classic Rock Forums. Dwight launched the original in 2001 or so. But for whatever reason that remains undisclosed Dwight then abruptly closed it down in January 2005. Some of the major posters including Zeppboy took it upon themselves to relaunch the original board as this one, CRF2. Almost all the members of Classic Rock Forums rejoined CRF2.

In the meantime, Dwight had done nothing to "protect" the name Classic Rock Forums. Shaggy therefore seized upon this oversight as a business opportunity and launched a new Classic Rock Forums that remains in operation to this day.

Shaggy's Classic Rock Forums wasn't very busy originally and activity had dwindled to not much more than a dozen or so posts per week by August 2009. At that point Flower and Hepcat decided to see if they could rejuvenate Classic Rock Forums with their own efforts. Then in October 2009 Shaggy lured Magic and Lord Grendel from MuzicForums to act as mods on Classic Rock Forums and do their best to use their contacts to spur activity. These efforts succeeded and activity on Classic Rock Forums mushroomed over the following year.

But Flower, Hepcat and I were all banned on Classic Rock Forums in September 2010 due to political differences with Magic and Lord Grendel stemming largely from a certain specific member of Classic Rock Forums being allowed to espouse gay causes/activities. I still resent this because a thread I had started on the Rolling Stones to which I was adding every second or third day was deleted! Hepcat's extensive thread on the Doors suffered the same fate. Other than spite I can think of no reason why threads with so much quality content would have been deleted

Meanwhile Zeppboy and some of the other leading posters here on CRF2 lost interest and drifted away over time. With nobody working to keep this board active, posting dwindled in the face of competition from Facebook and other social media. Big Daddy Dave took over this board in May 2015.

With respect to the difficulty of joining Classic Rock Forums, there seems to be a bit of an authoritarian "protectivist" element within the management. My Balticboy persona was banned immediately on Classic Rock Forums in December 2019 for asking why this site, CRF2, was down for a few weeks! I guess the administrators thought that I must be a fifth columnist out to undermine their board or something. :lol:

2. What do you mean though by progressive rock? It seems that you're using the terms "progressive rock" and "prog" interchangeably. But in reality the progressive rock of the late sixties evolved into the prog of the seventies and somehow over the ensuing years the term prog came to be used in a more exclusive sense to refer strictly to the prog of the seventies. Here's a thread dealing with this phenomenon:

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

So what do you think of as "progressive rock"?

:scratch:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Speaking for myself I've not yet seen it. I did notice that you voted in a couple of polls I started though!

Truth! Facebook has really taken a toll on discussion forums.

:frown:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Thanks for the reply Foxhound,
So then the other original site simply didn't care that I tried to join...?
I even mailed them...and my user name came up but it said I could not post.
Well...that explains why others came here. ;)

As to prog rock...I mean any and everything that could be considered prog rock: classic stuff like King Crimson, Yes, and Genesis...all the way to newer bands like Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Wobbler....etc.
I currently use the genres used by Progressive Rock Archives on line.
They tend to be pretty inclusive and even have many sub genres like Symphonic all the way to Prog related and Crossover prog.
I'm open minded about all of this but I tend to stick with the older bands from about '69 to '80 when I name them...though the 'experts' on Prog Archives have included many bands .
I was curious lf there was a dedicated thread for prog rock...I tend to be more interested in that the past few years.
:smile:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Welcome dr wu!

Thank you Foxhound for answering his question.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Progressive\Prog rock is my favorite of the 'rock' genres. I've been a fan since my first prog concert (ELP @ Fillmore East NYC) in 1971. Over the years it has splintered into some directions I myself don't understand (Metal for one) but everyone is entitled to their opinions. There are some who might question my favorite in the prog class, 'Fusion'.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

dwill123...your name is familiar ,,,,are you a PA member ..?

Is this the prog thread....? Or is there an actual dedicated thread?

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Certainly seems that way, but keep in mind that I don't/can't speak for them.

Ahhhh, but the real dividing line between an inclusive definition of prog and an exclusive definition of prog is whether you would include these bands that originated in the 1960's within the prog genre:

Beatles
Rolling Stones
Yardbirds
Cream
Led Zeppelin
Traffic
John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers
Byrds
Lovin' Spoonful
Buffalo Springfield
Deep Purple
Santana
Animals
The Who
Ten Years After
Jefferson Airplane
Bee Gees
Doors
Kinks
Grateful Dead
Jeff Beck Group
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Spirit
Them
Spencer Davis Group
Donovan
(Peter Green's) Fleetwood Mac
Jimi Hendrix Experience
Butterfield Blues Band
Electric Prunes
Zombies
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Steppenwolf
Big Brother & the Holding Company

Include them and your using the inclusive progressive rock definition. Exclude them and you subscribe to a narrow definition of prog.

Hepcat's thread would indeed be a viable candidate for the honour. But there have been dozens of threads dealing with progressive rock/prog over the years:

https://www.crf2.com/search.php?searchid=5966875

https://www.crf2.com/search.php?searchid=5968879

Whatever thread within you choose to post about prog can now de facto become the "official" prog thread including this one right here!

;)

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Yes I am. A card carrying member since 2006.

Is this the prog thread....?
As long as I've been here (and that's been longer that I've been with PA) there really hasn't been a dedicated 'prog' thread. Discussions of a 'prog' nature are welcomed and come up from time to time in the various established threads. But to the best of my knowledge there is no dedicated 'prog' thread. The few that discuss 'prog' here are knowledgeable and offer good comments. Feel free to add your comments just don't expect anything that approaches the depth of PA.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Thanks for the thread links but if anyone wants to this can also be the 'de facto' prog thread.
Regarding your list above......some of those are not what I consider prog bands , some are proto prog and some could be prog...imho.
There are no hard and fast rules though and it becomes a matter of opinion...which is always said at PA. I own something by every band on your list and a few bands there I have all of their studio work and much of the live also.
Inclusive...exclusive...narrow definitions...sounds like semantics to me....an area I know well being an over educated old timer. Saying Lovin' Spoonful is prog compared to say Yes is like saying Johnny Cash is R & B compared to Aretha Franklin. ;)
But...I will say that many rock bands have at various times snuck some progressive moves into their music, but not that much.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

I thought that was you...recognized the name.....I've looked around a little and I agree there is a more extensive and complete analysis of prog at PA. But it is specifically a prog rock site and this is not.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Cool! The very first concert by a big name group that I ever attended was one by the Nice at Centennial Hall in London, Ontario back in early 1970. Centennial Hall was an ideal venue since it was designed for concerts and with a seating capacity of only 1637 it was an "intimate" enough setting. At the tender age of eighteen I remember being very much impressed by both Keith Emerson's antics with the organ and by the amoeba light show framing the band on the stage.

:headbange

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

^If you saw the Nice in 1970...you must truly be an old foxhound.....
;)

Looked at your profile....anyone who was a fan of Peter Green's Mac is ok in my book.
My best friend Bill is a big Green fan of those early Mac days.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

I'm not that old! Here's a picture of me from a few years back:



The big ugly pink one I'm with is The MAN.

:foxhound:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Heh...I look a little like you...except I'm bald and have a goatee type beard.
It must be awesome to live in New Orleans.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

I now regard living anywhere on this side of the ground as a victory.

:smile:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

One of my favorites.....appropos these days...?

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

If I had to pick, the date I'd mark for the start of "prog" (but not progressive rock) would be 10 March 1967 when Arnold Layne by Pink Floyd was released:



:phones:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

^That's as good a choice as any...many bands were doing weird things with music in the late 60's...most of it seemed more psych than prog to me , but again it comes down to names and semantics and how one wants to classify stuff.

Moody Blues with Days of Future Passed....Procol Harum with Whiter Shade, Traffic with Mr Fantasy, The Nice with Davjack....and others.
Some even cite Sgt Pepper as the first 'prog' lp.
But to me the first full blown one was King Crimson's debut in 1969...to me this was the first example of hitting all the buttons that later stamped what prog rock was....but it's all subjective in the end.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

The release of A Whiter Shade of Pale on 12 May 1967 certainly kept the ball rolling.



:keyboards

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

So,,anyone want to comment on the so-called Big Six of Progressive Rock:
King Crimson
Yes
Genesis
ELP
Jethro Tull
Pink Floyd

Someone said that Jerry Lucky in his prog book coined the term but I'm not sure ( I have his book...might have to reread it...). Some think Rush or Gentle Giant or Van Der Graaf could also be on the list , or even The Moody Blues.
Thoughts on the list and the 'big six' term...?

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

King Crimson - Excellent!

Yes - No, they suck.

Genesis - Painfully bad self-absorbed navel gazing until Phil Collins took over. Then they were very good.

Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Some very good studio work but their excesses in live appearances such as touring with a whole symphony orchestra in tow provided a call to arms for a punk rock rebellion. So then maybe they should get some credit for punk rock as well.

Jethro Tull - Fabulous!

Pink Floyd - Excellent!

:phones:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

So...Yes and Genesis don't resonate with you. Then which known prog acts would you rate as the best prog bands....6 or less if you like.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

The problem for me here is deciding which bands fall into the more narrowly defined prog genre, but here's a list in rough order:

Jethro Tull

Pink Floyd

Roxy Music
Spirit
Supertramp
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Spooky Tooth
King Crimson
Moody Blues
Vanilla Fudge
Nice

:phones:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Tull, Floyd, KC, and ELP are on the big 6 list ...again this is a list that has been bandied about by prog rock people for some time now. As I said before the 'big 6' is subjective and so are who is considered prog rock at all.
Jethro Tull- Progressive folk rock
ELP-Symphonic prog
King Crimson- Eclectic prog
Pink Floyd-Psychedelic space rock
Roxy Music- Crossover prog
Spirit-Proto prog
Spooky Tooth-Proto prog
Supertramp-Crossover prog
Vanilla Fudge -Proto prog
Nice-Symphonic prog
Moody Blues- Crossover prog

Of course this is once again subjective and people argue about the categories and placement all the time even at PA,
Personally I have never really considered Supertramp, Fudge, Spooky Tooth, Spirit, or Roxy to be especially proggy. Though they all have proggy moments on various songs on various albums. This is where the subjectivity comes in. Even Tull...except for TAAB and Passion Play are not especially proggy on many of their lp's. They have always been a mix of rock ,blues, folk ..at least for me. Even Ian Anderson has said many times he doesn't think they are a prog band and that TAAB was done as sort of an inside joke in response to people wanting to label them 'progressive rock' at that time.
I like all of the bands on your list...though I have always thought of Supertramp as 'prog lite'....my least favorite on the list.
Had to edit...apparently Foxhound had to change his mind and add another band....The Moody Blues.
One of my all time favorites...though many consider them crossover I would put them in Symphonic .

btw...you say 'narrowly defined' as if it's a bad thing. I don't feel that way since most of the bands that are on the edge of prog would probably say themselves thev are not prog bands in the regular way. As you said once I think many of these bands were just trying to extend the borders ..jam out a little..and not trying to be prog per se.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Indeed I do! Quite simply because I was there listening and grooving as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Doors, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, Buffalo Springfield, Ten Years After, etc. were putting out increasingly sophisticated music in the late 1960's that was being called progressive rock by serious fans (which is what I considered myself at the time). Then somehow as ever more artsy "prog" bands developed, fans of 1970's prog started to object to the music of bands such as the aforementioned from the late 1960's being labelled "progressive rock". It's annoying to beat hell.

:mad:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Here then is another list of bands from the late sixties all of whom I regarded as progressive rock bands at the time:

Jimi Hendrix Experience
Doors
Bee Gees
Buffalo Springfield
Traffic
Ten Years After
Santana
Chicago

I was surprised to learn early this century (from this board actually) that the "progressive rock" term had morphed into "prog" and had been co-opted by prog enthusiasts as a reference to only the art rock bands of the 1970's.

How though would you yourself categorize the bands above?

:scratch:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Well I also was there listening...being 68 years young (69 in July)....my brother and I had all of those and I now have pretty much everything those bands did.,,,we never considered any of them 'progressive'...nor did anyone I hung around with use that term and many were a little older than me. As a matter of fact even bands like Yes , ELP, and Tull were not called prog. It was a later term at least where I lived.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Again no one I hung with called those bands prog rock...I think Hendrix (proto prog) , Traffic (crossover) , and Santana (crossover) did some proggy tunes at times and are crossover though they get tagged differently by others at PA....The Doors, proto prog, had a unique sound but not full blown prog ? TYA...did some interesting things later on in their career...but again prog?.. name a track for me.
Chicago...great band ,jazz fusion in my book, saw them in '69 when they were called CTA. Maybe progressive in their longer suites. But broken down into songs..not all that 'proggy' to me.
Bee Gees and Buffalo Springfield are not prog in my book nor in most proggers book,,,you are the only person I have ever heard say that ...again this gets subjective and we have had this argument countless times on PA. Big fan of Springfield btw.
It comes down to personal feelings in the end. Many bands in those days were doing different things with their music but imho that 'don't make it' prog rock.
:cool:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Remember though that I differentiate between the terms "progressive rock" and "prog" , with progressive rock being any kind of rock that aspires to more than being a commercially successful top forty single. (Not that I'm deriding top forty singles either.) Prog I equate with the art rockers from the group of six you mentioned.

Much/most of the material on Stonedhenge including this favourite of mine:



:smile:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Well.... that is straight ahead blues rock with a bit of boogie/shuffle in it. btw, I own that and all of the TYA lp's up to Watt.
And my friend Bill,,,who is a huge blues rock fan especially the early Brits, just laughed when I told him a guy on a forum said it was prog.
:D

btw...'prog' is just a shortened version of the term 'progressive rock'...always has been and never meant anything else...at least I have never seen it used in the way you are saying.
ps: If you are looking for a 'proggy' TYA lp you are looking for Cricklewood Green which imho is the proggiest thing they ever did though there are some similar ideas on Space In Time and Watt.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

King Crimson - iconic prog, deserve all the progressive praise they get. Have taken some hard turns along the way but always seem to land on their feet. "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" one of my top ten albums.

Yes. A progressive band that mostly stayed true to their progressive calling. Seemed to have to deal more with internal issues more than musical. There were a couple of things by them I have problems with (I couldn't and still can't stand "Tales from Topographic Oceans. IMO that one does suck). "Close to the Edge" may be the best progressive album ever made.

Genesis, I loved this band right up to "Foxtrot', then take them or leave 'em. For me their hands down best was "Nursery Cryme'.

ELP. They were who they were because of Keith Emerson. Their best album was "Tarkus".

Jethro Tull, one of two progressive bands (from the list) that consistently produced above average albums. My favorite "Benefit".

Pink Floyd, the other band that always seem to produce above average albums. The debate is whether or not they are prog. Many call them 'Psychedelic'. They are progressive enough for me. Best outing imo "Meddle".

Others which deserve mentioning at some time:
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Frank Zappa
Focus
The Flower Kings
David Sancious and Tone

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

I never said they were "prog" though. I said they were a progressive rock band.

That though is precisely the problem for me and the point on which we disagree. I don't believe the two terms should be used as synonyms. The people inclined to use the terms as synonyms are thereby co-opting the term "progressive rock" to refer merely to the narrow subset of those art rock bands like the six on your list. The original meaning of progressive rock was much broader. I had never heard the term "prog" until I joined the predecessor of this board in 2003 or so.

My favourite Ten Years After LP is either Ssssh or Cricklewood Green. It's a tough call for me.

:foxhound:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Well..imho you are co-opting the term to use it the way you want to...prog was always merely a shortened usage for prog rock...again I have never read anything different by any music expert or reviewer. Please correct me and find such an article from back in the day and I'll be glad to concede to that point. The term art rock was used to mean prog rock also at times.
btw....one can still consider a band having prog elements without calling it a 'prog rock' band....bands like Zeppelin, The Who and BOC are on PA as either prog related or crossover bands. If we use the term as loosely as you would like then almost any band can be called progressive rock based on a personal opinion because they did one or two longer songs or used an unusual instrument once or twice...but does that make the band progressive? That's a whole discussion in itself.

Sssh is a good album but for me Cricklewood is the most interesting thing they did while still maintaining a blues rock foundation.

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

"Always" is a long time. Like I say, I very clearly remember a popular DJ in southwestern Ontario using the term "progressive rock" to refer to the album oriented rock that had developed by 1968-69 before the art rock bands of the 1970's existed.

If however you insist on giving me credit (which I don't think I deserve) for coining the term "progressive rock", you must therefore logically accept my broadly encompassing meaning for the term as well.

Well then read this post from the other thread:

See?! Other posters remember the same.

That is of course why the term "progressive rock" morphed into "prog" with a much more limited meaning. With the continued explosion of album-oriented rock in the early 1970's, the term "progressive rock" became too all encompassing.

:phones:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Well..of course you didn't coin the term 'progressive rock'....what ever gave you that idea? ;)
Again it's subjective. Many others disagree with the good reverend, and with many of my ideas about music in general and in the prog area. There are no hard and fast rules or genres and they often bleed into each other since many bands and styles contain multiple influences.

ps: Ontario..? What did anyone in Canada ever know about true prog rock? ;)

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

Not that I like Rush at all, but is Rush not classified as a prog band by some/many fans?

And how about these two tracks both of which I really like?





:scratch:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

First time I heard of Kensington Market....(Wiki classifies them as pop rock), .... they have some interesting early things going on there , so maybe proto prog .?

That Gowan song has that 80's new wave sound to me....but I would say crossover prog/related for sure...btw he has been in Styx for some time now on keyboards and Styx is certainly prog rock.Performing it with Styx:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

I saw Styx perform with Larry Gowan as part of the band at Massey Hall in Toronto just over twenty years ago. Gowan stole the show.

:smile:

Re: Progressive Rock...?
 

One of my favorite early proto prog things.....Simon Dupree and the Big Sound...1967..can you tell me what band they morphed into?