The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, The Doors

[dwill123]

Originally Posted by dr wu

The Doors did some 'catchy' tunes but were not great musicians...imo.

That's an interesting comment. To this day I still consider Ray Manzarek to be one of the better keyboardist in the history of the modern era rock music.

[Marshall Stack]

Yeah, I think the 'Ray thing' made the sound and vibe that was The Doors... just how competent they all were as musicians - I don't know.... it mainly boils down to whether I like their songs or not. If I had to grab a record from a burning building... I'd let Jim's stuff melt.

[dr wu]

A great keyboard player as compared to ,Emerson, Wakeman, Tony Banks, Hancock, Corea, Winwood, Nicky Hopkins....etc...he's not that close to any of them imo.
I do agree that his Gibson G 101 'farfisa' sound did give a distinct sound to the Doors and his melodies and song writing helped make that band what it was.

https://recordhead.biz/10-best-keybo...s-of-all-time/
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_keyboard.html (he did come in at 4 on this list but imho many are far better players than him but didn't do radio friendly pop to reach audiences.
https://www.aimm.edu/blog/greatest-k...ts-of-all-time
https://ledgernote.com/blog/interest...-in-the-world/ (made 6 on this list)

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

Yeah, I think the 'Ray thing' made the sound and vibe that was The Doors... just how competent they all were as musicians - I don't know.... it mainly boils down to whether I like their songs or not. If I had to grab a record from a burning building... I'd let Jim's stuff melt.

Jim...? You mean Morrison..?

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by dwill123

That's an interesting comment. To this day I still consider Ray Manzarek to be one of the better keyboardist in the history of the modern era rock music.

And compare that to the work Emerson and Wakeman and others did around the same time frame.....

[dwill123]

Originally Posted by dr wu

And compare that to the work Emerson and Wakeman and others did around the same time frame.....

Many do but I cannot really compare Emerson and/or Wakeman to Ray Manzarek. Manzarek (to me) belongs in the early 'classic rock' era. Emerson or Wakeman I would place in the early 'progressive rock' or even early 'jazz rock' period. I would consider it to comparing apples to oranges (both fruit but not the same). A better comparison for Emerson or Wakeman might be Chick Corea and/or Brian Auger.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

And compare that to the work Emerson and Wakeman and others did around the same time frame.....

Did though Emerson or Wakeman ever lay down as timeless a riff as the one Ray Manzarek did for Light My Fire and in so doing set the bar higher for rock music?

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by Foxhound

Did though Emerson or Wakeman ever lay down as timeless a riff as the one Ray Manzarek did for Light My Fire and in so doing set the bar higher for rock music?

I believer there are number of 'timeless' riffs on both early ELP and Yes lp's, but they were not on the top 40 so unless one was a prog and lp fan in general they were not heard. If 'Light My Fire' had not been released as a single and The Doors were not as commercial would it have had the same impact...? Tough one to answer imo.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

I believer there are number of 'timeless' riffs on both early ELP and Yes lp's, but they were not on the top 40 so unless one was a prog and lp fan in general they were not heard. If 'Light My Fire' had not been released as a single and The Doors were not as commercial would it have had the same impact...?

But commercial impact is of key importance! Music is composed to be heard, and without the commercial impact it doesn't have the influence.

Truthfully I think you're making the mistake of equating quality with complexity. But music absolutely does not have to be complex to be good. There's no such correlation.

And I'm speaking as a big fan of Keith Emerson as well as Ray Manzarek different though they were.

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by Foxhound

But commercial impact is of key importance! Music is composed to be heard, and without the commercial impact it doesn't have the influence.

Truthfully I think you're making the mistake of equating quality with complexity. But music absolutely does not have to be complex to be good. There's no such correlation.

And I'm speaking as a big fan of Keith Emerson as well as Ray Manzarek different though they were.

This is where we disagree and the nub of the issue....commercial impact is not of 'key importance'...unless one is only interested in making big bucks and any true musician will tell you that. And many..I would argue perhaps most influence (at least in the beginning days) came from musicians who were not publicly nor commercially successful at least in the early days.
Quality does not have to be complex...that's right , but that was never my point...which was that Manzarek is a solid keyboard player but not a 'great one'. And as always this is subjective to the listening public.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

...but that was never my point...which was that Manzarek is a solid keyboard player but not a 'great one'. And as always this is subjective to the listening public.

Fair enough, but Manzarek has always sounded really good to me.

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by Foxhound

Fair enough, but Manzarek has always sounded really good to me.

My favorite keys from him...by far...perhaps my favorite Doors track.

[Tkitna]

Beatles werent great musicians either, but they did alright for themselves.

It doesnt matter how technically good people are. If the package works, it trumps being a virtuoso.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by Tkitna

It doesnt matter how technically good people are. If the package works, it trumps being a virtuoso.

Truth!