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View Poll Results: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver?
Beethoven's 9th Symphony 10 35.71%
Beatles: Revolver 14 50.00%
Beatles, but I would have chosen a different album 3 10.71%
None of the above 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2010, 08:33 PM   #19
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Originally Posted by bobbyg29 View Post
Revolver. As much as I respect Beethoven's talent and profound influence on music, classical music just does not connect on a sub-conscious, emotional level with me like rock music does. I have only a cognitive/cerebral appreciation for classical music, if that makes any sense.
That makes complete sense and I think I'm on the same page. For me, music without interpersonal context would scarcely be worth listening to. We don't even get to listen to recordings of Beethoven's actual work, we don't get to hear a symphony that Beethoven conducted himself or what it sounded like when he sat down at a piano. All we have is verbatim cover versions. I love classical music for solo piano and solo strings but I wouldn't choose any classical piece over any of my top 200 rock albums. Now, if Beethoven was a man today, creating those same piano pieces in the interpersonal and intellectual context which means anything to me, he could be among my favorite artists. Context defines what the music means, music in a vaccuum has no worth in my eyes.
They aren't just verbatim cover versions. Every conductor and orchestra bring something to the experience. Some orchestras use period instruments designed just like those in Beethoven's day and others use modern instruments. Once you get a taste for a piece, it's a pleasure to hear it interpreted by different performers. And you can still discern the voice of the composer, who is always there.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:58 PM   #20
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
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Originally Posted by bobbyg29 View Post
Revolver. As much as I respect Beethoven's talent and profound influence on music, classical music just does not connect on a sub-conscious, emotional level with me like rock music does. I have only a cognitive/cerebral appreciation for classical music, if that makes any sense.
That makes complete sense and I think I'm on the same page. For me, music without interpersonal context would scarcely be worth listening to. We don't even get to listen to recordings of Beethoven's actual work, we don't get to hear a symphony that Beethoven conducted himself or what it sounded like when he sat down at a piano. All we have is verbatim cover versions. I love classical music for solo piano and solo strings but I wouldn't choose any classical piece over any of my top 200 rock albums. Now, if Beethoven was a man today, creating those same piano pieces in the interpersonal and intellectual context which means anything to me, he could be among my favorite artists. Context defines what the music means, music in a vaccuum has no worth in my eyes.
They aren't just verbatim cover versions. Every conductor and orchestra bring something to the experience. Some orchestras use period instruments designed just like those in Beethoven's day and others use modern instruments. Once you get a taste for a piece, it's a pleasure to hear it interpreted by different performers. And you can still discern the voice of the composer, who is always there.
With the utmost of respect, that doesn't make it any better for me. Any musician collective by the name of "the something something Orchestra" or "... Symphony..." (with the possible exception of The Diablo Swing Orchestra, and facetious uses) gives me absolutely no sense of a personality or spirit. I could go in-depth about the various specific things which seperate me emotionally from classical music, but I assume you're not out for an essay.

So I'll just keep it short and say that music for me is a wholly social affair. Whether it's pro-social (like NMH) or anti-social (like Burzum), it's answering the social question. Inherent in all the music I like is a sense of personality, the music molds together an impression of a character. Classical music as music is certainly capable of creating these impressions, but it exists solely as anthologies and cover versions, and a lot of what music means for me comes from the way albums are put together, the album & song titles, and the progression the work takes. Being from so long ago, classical music lacks the context I need to interpret the music as an expression of personality. But if Beethoven were around today, playing his own music and putting together albums, given the right artistic motif I could definetly be a big fan. I wouldn't listen to Nirvana if all we had were covers. But even if I could overlook the fact that classical music is all cover versions, I could never relate to a musician from so long ago, even the everyday experiences of his life are things I probably wouldn't be able to empathize with.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:33 PM   #21
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg29 View Post
Revolver. As much as I respect Beethoven's talent and profound influence on music, classical music just does not connect on a sub-conscious, emotional level with me like rock music does. I have only a cognitive/cerebral appreciation for classical music, if that makes any sense.
That makes complete sense and I think I'm on the same page. For me, music without interpersonal context would scarcely be worth listening to. We don't even get to listen to recordings of Beethoven's actual work, we don't get to hear a symphony that Beethoven conducted himself or what it sounded like when he sat down at a piano. All we have is verbatim cover versions. I love classical music for solo piano and solo strings but I wouldn't choose any classical piece over any of my top 200 rock albums. Now, if Beethoven was a man today, creating those same piano pieces in the interpersonal and intellectual context which means anything to me, he could be among my favorite artists. Context defines what the music means, music in a vaccuum has no worth in my eyes.
They aren't just verbatim cover versions. Every conductor and orchestra bring something to the experience. Some orchestras use period instruments designed just like those in Beethoven's day and others use modern instruments. Once you get a taste for a piece, it's a pleasure to hear it interpreted by different performers. And you can still discern the voice of the composer, who is always there.
With the utmost of respect, that doesn't make it any better for me. Any musician collective by the name of "the something something Orchestra" or "... Symphony..." (with the possible exception of The Diablo Swing Orchestra, and facetious uses) gives me absolutely no sense of a personality or spirit. I could go in-depth about the various specific things which seperate me emotionally from classical music, but I assume you're not out for an essay.

So I'll just keep it short and say that music for me is a wholly social affair. Whether it's pro-social (like NMH) or anti-social (like Burzum), it's answering the social question. Inherent in all the music I like is a sense of personality, the music molds together an impression of a character. Classical music as music is certainly capable of creating these impressions, but it exists solely as anthologies and cover versions, and a lot of what music means for me comes from the way albums are put together, the album & song titles, and the progression the work takes. Being from so long ago, classical music lacks the context I need to interpret the music as an expression of personality. But if Beethoven were around today, playing his own music and putting together albums, given the right artistic motif I could definetly be a big fan. I wouldn't listen to Nirvana if all we had were covers. But even if I could overlook the fact that classical music is all cover versions, I could never relate to a musician from so long ago, even the everyday experiences of his life are things I probably wouldn't be able to empathize with.
Well, I'm truly sorry for you, because there's hundreds of years of music out there that you'll never enjoy because it doesn't come up to your standard of personality and immediacy.

Calling all classical music "cover versions" is just imposing a post-1964 rock music context upon a field of music that doesn't and never has been anything like rock music. Your standards reflect a musical sensibility that's barely as old as I am.

I really don't think you would find Beethoven or people of his time and earlier so hard to relate to unless you really go out of your way to maximize the differences. People in every age have families, jobs, love, art, sex, inspiration, humiliation, hate, rage, friendships, forgiveness, and on and on and on. The fact that they wore eight layers of clothes and lived under monarchies and had nothing like what we today think of as "technology" isn't really that much of a barrier to understanding and relating to them. Human beings in essence haven't changed all that much, only the packaging and accessories are different.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:03 PM   #22
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
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Originally Posted by bobbyg29 View Post
Revolver. As much as I respect Beethoven's talent and profound influence on music, classical music just does not connect on a sub-conscious, emotional level with me like rock music does. I have only a cognitive/cerebral appreciation for classical music, if that makes any sense.
That makes complete sense and I think I'm on the same page. For me, music without interpersonal context would scarcely be worth listening to. We don't even get to listen to recordings of Beethoven's actual work, we don't get to hear a symphony that Beethoven conducted himself or what it sounded like when he sat down at a piano. All we have is verbatim cover versions. I love classical music for solo piano and solo strings but I wouldn't choose any classical piece over any of my top 200 rock albums. Now, if Beethoven was a man today, creating those same piano pieces in the interpersonal and intellectual context which means anything to me, he could be among my favorite artists. Context defines what the music means, music in a vaccuum has no worth in my eyes.
They aren't just verbatim cover versions. Every conductor and orchestra bring something to the experience. Some orchestras use period instruments designed just like those in Beethoven's day and others use modern instruments. Once you get a taste for a piece, it's a pleasure to hear it interpreted by different performers. And you can still discern the voice of the composer, who is always there.
With the utmost of respect, that doesn't make it any better for me. Any musician collective by the name of "the something something Orchestra" or "... Symphony..." (with the possible exception of The Diablo Swing Orchestra, and facetious uses) gives me absolutely no sense of a personality or spirit. I could go in-depth about the various specific things which seperate me emotionally from classical music, but I assume you're not out for an essay.

So I'll just keep it short and say that music for me is a wholly social affair. Whether it's pro-social (like NMH) or anti-social (like Burzum), it's answering the social question. Inherent in all the music I like is a sense of personality, the music molds together an impression of a character. Classical music as music is certainly capable of creating these impressions, but it exists solely as anthologies and cover versions, and a lot of what music means for me comes from the way albums are put together, the album & song titles, and the progression the work takes. Being from so long ago, classical music lacks the context I need to interpret the music as an expression of personality. But if Beethoven were around today, playing his own music and putting together albums, given the right artistic motif I could definetly be a big fan. I wouldn't listen to Nirvana if all we had were covers. But even if I could overlook the fact that classical music is all cover versions, I could never relate to a musician from so long ago, even the everyday experiences of his life are things I probably wouldn't be able to empathize with.
Well, I'm truly sorry for you, because there's hundreds of years of music out there that you'll never enjoy because it doesn't come up to your standard of personality and immediacy.

Calling all classical music "cover versions" is just imposing a post-1964 rock music context upon a field of music that doesn't and never has been anything like rock music. Your standards reflect a musical sensibility that's barely as old as I am.

I really don't think you would find Beethoven or people of his time and earlier so hard to relate to unless you really go out of your way to maximize the differences. People in every age have families, jobs, love, art, sex, inspiration, humiliation, hate, rage, friendships, forgiveness, and on and on and on. The fact that they wore eight layers of clothes and lived under monarchies and had nothing like what we today think of as "technology" isn't really that much of a barrier to understanding and relating to them. Human beings in essence haven't changed all that much, only the packaging and accessories are different.
I'm sorry to have offended you, Dk. I thought I was ostensibly clear with the fact that this is merely my perspective and also the fact that I do enjoy classical music to the extent that I'm able (I mentioned Moonlight Sonata as my favorite Beethoven in this or the other thread and my taste for solo-instrument pieces). As far as me missing out on anything goes... don't be condescending. I'm sure there's countless pieces of music that I appreciate which you cannot, so should I feel sorry for you? Or maybe it's called personal taste. For the record, I've explored classical music extensively, I did most of my reports in my humanities classes on it.

I don't care half an inch for quantity when it comes to music, so whether there's one classical piece or fifty trillion decades of classical music makes no difference to me. If I could be satisfied by one three minute song every time I listen to it, that's all I would ever listen to. I'm not a religious man or a sentimental man or even much of a risk taker. I'm clinical in my perspectives and rational in my actions. Music is the only place where I go to be myself, the only place where I can actually let go of all my over-analyzing. I have no care for whatever anyone else thinks about music, music is my own. Music is for me. Whatever moves me is the best music ever made and whatever doesn't is crap. I'm happy to discuss it rationally with people, but in my heart music is only whatever I feel, because music is the only physical thing which I let exist inside my heart.

Calling classical music cover versions is a literal application of the definition of the phrase. Just because that's all we have of it doesn't mean it automatically becomes the purest form of Beethoven's work. But yes, I absolutely positively impose a post-1964 reality upon classical music. Guess what, if I didn't impose those views upon every music I listen to, I wouldn't listen to music at all. Music without an interpersonal perspective means nothing to me. Music means something to me because of how it relates to my experiences and how it helps to form my world. I understand music through albums and bands and songtitles and image and conceptual art. Music for me is 100% art and 0% technical or scientific.

As far as relating to Beethoven goes, you actually said it quite well: Everybody experiences those emotions. Music is the utmost of personal to me. I'm not trying to empathize with every tom dick and harry because it's a given, we all experience those same emotions. For my favorite musicians I find those with shocking similarities, aspects of myself which I never expected to see in other people. And to identify these things, I must largely rely on modern perspectives and modern knowledge, because society was different 100 years ago. Human creatures may not have changed, but the world we live in certainly has, and those little inconsistencies are essential in the identification and forming of identity. With Beethoven we know the facts, but I could never genuinely relate with the culture and society those facts exist in, so the guesswork would be off the charts. I have enough trouble convincing myself that the connections I see in 2010 are genuine, let alone convincing myself of things so much further removed and so much more up to debate.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:10 PM   #23
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
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Originally Posted by bobbyg29 View Post
Revolver. As much as I respect Beethoven's talent and profound influence on music, classical music just does not connect on a sub-conscious, emotional level with me like rock music does. I have only a cognitive/cerebral appreciation for classical music, if that makes any sense.
That makes complete sense and I think I'm on the same page. For me, music without interpersonal context would scarcely be worth listening to. We don't even get to listen to recordings of Beethoven's actual work, we don't get to hear a symphony that Beethoven conducted himself or what it sounded like when he sat down at a piano. All we have is verbatim cover versions. I love classical music for solo piano and solo strings but I wouldn't choose any classical piece over any of my top 200 rock albums. Now, if Beethoven was a man today, creating those same piano pieces in the interpersonal and intellectual context which means anything to me, he could be among my favorite artists. Context defines what the music means, music in a vaccuum has no worth in my eyes.
They aren't just verbatim cover versions. Every conductor and orchestra bring something to the experience. Some orchestras use period instruments designed just like those in Beethoven's day and others use modern instruments. Once you get a taste for a piece, it's a pleasure to hear it interpreted by different performers. And you can still discern the voice of the composer, who is always there.
Those period instruments aren't just designed like those from Beethoven's day, they are actually from Beethoven's day. Besides, there are some really cool cover bands, like the Chicago Symphony, and the London Philharmonic, who can faithfully reproduce what Beethoven wrote some 200 years ago. If Beethoven saw the other thread pitting his glorious 9th against Revolution 9, he would indeed roll over. When I saw the thread, I thought it was a joke, but apparently some people prefer Revolution 9 to Beethoven's 9th. I can't even relate to that.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #24
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

Dude, give Beethoven a blunt and sit him in the middle of some surround sound speakers, blast Revolution 9 and he will probably weep tears of joy.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:03 PM   #25
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Dude, give Beethoven a blunt and sit him in the middle of some surround sound speakers, blast Revolution 9 and he will probably weep tears of joy.
You'd have to really blast it, as he was deaf as a post when he wrote the 9th.

And as for the blunt, that's the difference between the two works. Beethoven's 9th can transport me to another world without the blunt. Revolution 9 is unendurable if you're not stoned, and pretty damned hard to listen to if you are.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:20 AM   #26
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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Dude, give Beethoven a blunt and sit him in the middle of some surround sound speakers, blast Revolution 9 and he will probably weep tears of joy.
You'd have to really blast it, as he was deaf as a post when he wrote the 9th.

And as for the blunt, that's the difference between the two works. Beethoven's 9th can transport me to another world without the blunt. Revolution 9 is unendurable if you're not stoned, and pretty damned hard to listen to if you are.
Fair enough. Me, I like noise music even when I'm sober, and I don't like big beefy classical pieces even when I'm blazed to Mars. But the Allegreto portion of Moonlight Sonata is utterly badass under any circumstances, as long as I'm thinking of Beethoven and I don't remember it's probably some highschool orchestra teacher playing it.

Now, as far as this discussion is going, I'm afraid I have done a dreadfully lax job of adequately explaining myself. And while I won't bore you with a lengthy rewrite, I'd like to expand on just one thing. In regards to relating to Beethoven, I just don't have anywhere to start, there might as well be eons between he and I.

Just take Neil Young as an example. I can't relate 100% to Neil, even though he's my favorite artist. His favorite artists were people like Roy Orbison and Hank Williams, whom I deeply appreciate as vocalists but whom I have a hard time relating to as artists. But Neil has his "Hank to Hendrix" dichotomy and I have my "Neil to Vikernes" dichotomy and in that sense I understand exactly where Neil must be coming from. Because to me, Neil Young is the alpha & omega, he's the hip guy, he's the innovative artist. But to a lot of people my age, classic rock is none of those things, classic rock might as well be Brittany Spears with guitars because it's just vapid commercial rock to them. And I'd contest that up and down, spend all day writing about how classic rock is deep and courageous and quite possibly more innovative than just about any movement since. And I can't say for certain, but I bet that must be how Neil feels about Hank and Roy. I bet he feels about Hendrix like I feel about Burzum, in fact things he's said about Hendrix remind me of things I've said about Burzm.

Now what on Earth would be my equivelant with Beethoven? Recording technology didn't exist back then, so everything down to the way we listen to music was completely different. Art itself was a completely different landscape back then. Was Beethoven trying to hip when he made the 5th? Was the 9th his White Album? Is Moonlight Sonata's Allegreto more akin to Van Halen's Eruption or Dimmu Borgir's Progenis of the Great Apocalypse? Is it a wank-fest or is it totally heavy, by the standards of the time? I have difficulty even concieving of such thoughts, and I'm pretty imaginative with music.

In any case, I know I'm a tedious human being, peace to all
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:31 AM   #27
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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[I'm sorry to have offended you, Dk. I thought I was ostensibly clear with the fact that this is merely my perspective and also the fact that I do enjoy classical music to the extent that I'm able (I mentioned Moonlight Sonata as my favorite Beethoven in this or the other thread and my taste for solo-instrument pieces). As far as me missing out on anything goes... don't be condescending. I'm sure there's countless pieces of music that I appreciate which you cannot, so should I feel sorry for you? Or maybe it's called personal taste. For the record, I've explored classical music extensively, I did most of my reports in my humanities classes on it.

I don't care half an inch for quantity when it comes to music, so whether there's one classical piece or fifty trillion decades of classical music makes no difference to me. If I could be satisfied by one three minute song every time I listen to it, that's all I would ever listen to. I'm not a religious man or a sentimental man or even much of a risk taker. I'm clinical in my perspectives and rational in my actions. Music is the only place where I go to be myself, the only place where I can actually let go of all my over-analyzing. I have no care for whatever anyone else thinks about music, music is my own. Music is for me. Whatever moves me is the best music ever made and whatever doesn't is crap. I'm happy to discuss it rationally with people, but in my heart music is only whatever I feel, because music is the only physical thing which I let exist inside my heart.

Calling classical music cover versions is a literal application of the definition of the phrase. Just because that's all we have of it doesn't mean it automatically becomes the purest form of Beethoven's work. But yes, I absolutely positively impose a post-1964 reality upon classical music. Guess what, if I didn't impose those views upon every music I listen to, I wouldn't listen to music at all. Music without an interpersonal perspective means nothing to me. Music means something to me because of how it relates to my experiences and how it helps to form my world. I understand music through albums and bands and songtitles and image and conceptual art. Music for me is 100% art and 0% technical or scientific.

As far as relating to Beethoven goes, you actually said it quite well: Everybody experiences those emotions. Music is the utmost of personal to me. I'm not trying to empathize with every tom dick and harry because it's a given, we all experience those same emotions. For my favorite musicians I find those with shocking similarities, aspects of myself which I never expected to see in other people. And to identify these things, I must largely rely on modern perspectives and modern knowledge, because society was different 100 years ago. Human creatures may not have changed, but the world we live in certainly has, and those little inconsistencies are essential in the identification and forming of identity. With Beethoven we know the facts, but I could never genuinely relate with the culture and society those facts exist in, so the guesswork would be off the charts. I have enough trouble convincing myself that the connections I see in 2010 are genuine, let alone convincing myself of things so much further removed and so much more up to debate.
You haven't offended me a bit, I'm just perplexed that someone with obvious intelligence can't appreciate so many good things. And I'm really surprised that you've taken humanities classes and wrote papers on classical music and the only piece that you can even admit to liking is "Moonlight Sonata." Not that such a thing is in any way impossible, it just seems terribly unfortunate. I was going to recommend that you take a music appreciation class, but I guess you've been there, done that, rejected it utterly.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:06 AM   #28
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

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[I'm sorry to have offended you, Dk. I thought I was ostensibly clear with the fact that this is merely my perspective and also the fact that I do enjoy classical music to the extent that I'm able (I mentioned Moonlight Sonata as my favorite Beethoven in this or the other thread and my taste for solo-instrument pieces). As far as me missing out on anything goes... don't be condescending. I'm sure there's countless pieces of music that I appreciate which you cannot, so should I feel sorry for you? Or maybe it's called personal taste. For the record, I've explored classical music extensively, I did most of my reports in my humanities classes on it.

I don't care half an inch for quantity when it comes to music, so whether there's one classical piece or fifty trillion decades of classical music makes no difference to me. If I could be satisfied by one three minute song every time I listen to it, that's all I would ever listen to. I'm not a religious man or a sentimental man or even much of a risk taker. I'm clinical in my perspectives and rational in my actions. Music is the only place where I go to be myself, the only place where I can actually let go of all my over-analyzing. I have no care for whatever anyone else thinks about music, music is my own. Music is for me. Whatever moves me is the best music ever made and whatever doesn't is crap. I'm happy to discuss it rationally with people, but in my heart music is only whatever I feel, because music is the only physical thing which I let exist inside my heart.

Calling classical music cover versions is a literal application of the definition of the phrase. Just because that's all we have of it doesn't mean it automatically becomes the purest form of Beethoven's work. But yes, I absolutely positively impose a post-1964 reality upon classical music. Guess what, if I didn't impose those views upon every music I listen to, I wouldn't listen to music at all. Music without an interpersonal perspective means nothing to me. Music means something to me because of how it relates to my experiences and how it helps to form my world. I understand music through albums and bands and songtitles and image and conceptual art. Music for me is 100% art and 0% technical or scientific.

As far as relating to Beethoven goes, you actually said it quite well: Everybody experiences those emotions. Music is the utmost of personal to me. I'm not trying to empathize with every tom dick and harry because it's a given, we all experience those same emotions. For my favorite musicians I find those with shocking similarities, aspects of myself which I never expected to see in other people. And to identify these things, I must largely rely on modern perspectives and modern knowledge, because society was different 100 years ago. Human creatures may not have changed, but the world we live in certainly has, and those little inconsistencies are essential in the identification and forming of identity. With Beethoven we know the facts, but I could never genuinely relate with the culture and society those facts exist in, so the guesswork would be off the charts. I have enough trouble convincing myself that the connections I see in 2010 are genuine, let alone convincing myself of things so much further removed and so much more up to debate.
You haven't offended me a bit, I'm just perplexed that someone with obvious intelligence can't appreciate so many good things. And I'm really surprised that you've taken humanities classes and wrote papers on classical music and the only piece that you can even admit to liking is "Moonlight Sonata." Not that such a thing is in any way impossible, it just seems terribly unfortunate. I was going to recommend that you take a music appreciation class, but I guess you've been there, done that, rejected it utterly.
Ah, I see. I thought I had offended you because of your condescending remark. I mean, everyone listens to the music they like, it's not an issue of missing out. How much noise music do you listen to, how much gangsta rap, how much black metal, how much modern top 40, how much punk, how much house? Classical music is just a form of music. It should be absolutely no less suprising for you to hear me say I don't like classical as it is for you to hear someone on here say they don't like rap.

Firstly, what are these "so many" things you say I am missing out. Classical music and... ... ...? Secondly, Moonlight Sonata is the only piece I mentioned by name. I said that I like pieces featuring only one or two instruments. Virtually any solo piano piece by a virtuoso is something I can tolerate happily, and I had slews of favorites back when I was courting classical as a possible conquest (as I do with any music, because for me it's not instant, it's a slow process).

It's funny for me to see you suprised at my humanities-laden past since in highschool humanities was totally my thing. I often dressed up like Socrates. I remember the time when a senior girl told me "Wow, I wish I cared as much about something as you do Socrates. Oh wait... I do, boys." Ahaha. It's also a weird feeling for you to say I utterly rejected humanities or classical music when I've done no such thing. It was purely my choice to write essays on classical music, my professor let us choose all of our essay topics all 3 years I took classes of his, as long as it was within the world of humanities. I was quite interested in classical music for a time, but like death metal, it never stuck. It was just a phase. For the reasons I've stated and a million more. It's an enthralling body of work but it doesn't connect with my life or who I am in any significant way.

Clearly you interpret my distaste for classical music as being dismissive of classical music and for that I truly apologize. I apologize for not being able to articulate myself better. It's a very difficult thing for me to do, and if I had succeeded then you would understand where I'm coming from. Unfortunately I don't think there's much more I could say to explain without letting this get much more long-winded than it already is. I have genuine problems with classical music -- things which stop me from enjoying it thoroughly. But my problems aren't with the music itself, it's with everything surrounding the music. It's basically the same as if someone were to say "I have nothing against rap as a style of music, but I don't like lyrics about drugs, money, and drug-money."

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Old 02-23-2010, 09:42 AM   #29
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Ah, I see. I thought I had offended you because of your condescending remark. I mean, everyone listens to the music they like, it's not an issue of missing out. How much noise music do you listen to, how much gangsta rap, how much black metal, how much modern top 40, how much punk, how much house? Classical music is just a form of music. It should be absolutely no less suprising for you to hear me say I don't like classical as it is for you to hear someone on here say they don't like rap.

Firstly, what are these "so many" things you say I am missing out. Classical music and... ... ...? Secondly, Moonlight Sonata is the only piece I mentioned by name. I said that I like pieces featuring only one or two instruments. Virtually any solo piano piece by a virtuoso is something I can tolerate happily, and I had slews of favorites back when I was courting classical as a possible conquest (as I do with any music, because for me it's not instant, it's a slow process).

It's funny for me to see you suprised at my humanities-laden past since in highschool humanities was totally my thing. I often dressed up like Socrates. I remember the time when a senior girl told me "Wow, I wish I cared as much about something as you do Socrates. Oh wait... I do, boys." Ahaha. It's also a weird feeling for you to say I utterly rejected humanities or classical music when I've done no such thing. It was purely my choice to write essays on classical music, my professor let us choose all of our essay topics all 3 years I took classes of his, as long as it was within the world of humanities. I was quite interested in classical music for a time, but like death metal, it never stuck. It was just a phase. For the reasons I've stated and a million more. It's an enthralling body of work but it doesn't connect with my life or who I am in any significant way.

Clearly you interpret my distaste for classical music as being dismissive of classical music and for that I truly apologize. I apologize for not being able to articulate myself better. It's a very difficult thing for me to do, and if I had succeeded then you would understand where I'm coming from. Unfortunately I don't think there's much more I could say to explain without letting this get much more long-winded than it already is. I have genuine problems with classical music -- things which stop me from enjoying it thoroughly. But my problems aren't with the music itself, it's with everything surrounding the music. It's basically the same as if someone were to say "I have nothing against rap as a style of music, but I don't like lyrics about drugs, money, and drug-money."

I wasn't really trying to be condescending with my remark - geez, if you could have only seem the myriad of edits and revisions I made on that one phrase alone. I really am sorry that someone like yourself who is obviously intelligent and who has a passion for music cannot appreciate classical music that's more complex in its instrumentation than one to four instruments.

The only "things" I was referring to are composers and their works, I was not intending in any way to take the conversation outside of the musical realm.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:49 AM   #30
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

I dunno, bra, I do listen to Godspeed You! Black Emperor. But I do usually like simple music. To me it's more divine, closer to God, to strip everything down.

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Old 02-25-2010, 06:16 PM   #31
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Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

How do you compare the Beatles and Beethoven when they come from different music genres and eras?

I don't know if Beethoven expanded the parameters of his genre or time but Revolver does easily.

On Revolver the Beatles were inventive in their songwriting, their use of instruments, experimentation with new studio techniques like Automatic Double Tracking, backward guitar and vocals through Leslie speakers and in forging a message beyond just, "please buy this album."

The expanded approach of instrumentation, sounds and textures not normally associated with pop music hinted on Help and Rubber Soul starts in earnest with Revolver. Also the psychedelic use of the studio in terms of backward tapes, unusual vari-speeding effects, and the use of multiple loops would become their trademark sound of psychedelic music. They basically 1-upped everyone one of their peers with this style especially heard on "Tomorrow Never Knows".
Indian instruments was featured prominently on the album, especially on "Tomorrow Never Knows," which John Lennon wrote while inspired by the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Segments of "Taxman" are put into "Tomorrow Never Knows" backwards.. Also using the recording technology as part of the composition it's background features a series of loops and electronic noises with bass and tamboura drones throughout the track

The expanded approach to instrumentation is evident on much of the album. "For No One" features a French Horn solo and clavichord. "Love You To" features an entirely non-western background only fortified by spurts of volume swells fuzz bass. "Eleanor Rigby" backing does not even include a rock instrument but a background of a string octet and vocals at times in counterpoint. "Got to Get To You Into My Life" features a full brass band. "I'm Only Sleeping" features guitars parts written and then recorded backwards and on it's fade-out two backward guitar parts fading out.

Songs like "Good Day Sunshine" and "She Said She Said" especially the latter features mixed meters on it's bridge. Not forgetting their power-pop roots the harmonized guitar parts as one on "And Your Bird Can Sing"

Lyrically the Beatles were expanding on what they were doing on Rubber Soul.

"Taxman," written by George Harrison, was an angry response to the pocket-picking British tax system. "Yellow Submarine" was practically a children's song, the refrain arriving to Paul McCartney as he came out of a deep sleep. "Eleanor Rigby," about a lonely priest and a friendless spinster. "Tomorrow Never Knows," with lyrics like "That love is all / And love is everyone / It is knowing / It is knowing / That ignorance and hate / May mourn the dead / It is believing
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Old 11-19-2021, 12:49 AM   #32
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Exclamation Re: Poll: Beethoven's 9th or Beatles Revolver

Ninth Symphony - Ludwig Van Beethoven




Revolver - Beatles









This is a really tough one for me. My second favourite Beethoven symphony is the 9th after the 5th while Revolver is my second favourite Beatles' album after Rubber Soul. In the end though I'm giving this one to Beethoven's 9th on the basis of proven longevity.

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