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View Poll Results: Choose one option
Yes 9 39.13%
No 11 47.83%
Maybe 3 13.04%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-21-2014, 06:41 PM   #37
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Exclamation Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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Also funny I was reading how 1990's rock fashion is back in style for spring 2014.
Interesting. I didn't realize there had been any changes in fashion since the early 1980's, other than the emergence of baggy pants crowd of course....


-that says it all.

hey in the early 00's I was in this so called NYC hipster trend scene but I was still wearing 70's clothes. I was the odd ball Although throw on an old 70's concert tee and an old flannel shirt and I fit right in!!!
I was well ahead of the curve myself. I've clung to my turntable, skinny ties, stovepipe pants and multi-coloured Converse All-Stars right through the entire piece!

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Old 03-22-2014, 01:15 PM   #38
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

Ok guys my post had nothing to do with fashion. I have said the same thing about this topic over the years that I am going to say right now – because it’s the truth. It’s the most important point about this topic and this site has usually ignored it or spun the topic back to what the individual wants.

The music business is an industry. Where this industry decides to invest their money dictates American mainstream music culture. This can be a good thing or this can be a bad thing. But it exists as the reality of our music culture as a society.

Since 1999 much of the money has stopped flowing towards rock acts. They no longer want to invest in a new rock bands development, recording, touring or promotion that heavily. Rock bands are getting roughly 15% of the investments they used to get from the 60s-90s. Therefore rocks representation in the mainstream music scene is only 15% of what it was during the decades when rock was a heavy hitter. This is clearly evident in the charts and the tours. Is rock dead? No – neither is swing music for that matter. But they have something in common now.

It doesn’t mean there are not still millions of rock fans in America. It doesn’t mean there are not still hundreds of rock bands – though they are not funded like they were in the past. In fact almost all of the funding for rock acts goes toward acts that are 30 years old! So basically the main investment for rock is to promote it to older people - not younger people. Follow the money and that will tell you if rock is still healthy. ATM rock is not a large part of the American music scenes. (In Europe they still invest heavily in rock acts).

We can all have our own opinions on this topic. But business is still business and still dictates the music industry. And to be honest I have become more disillusioned with the craptastic pop that we now endure. Great pop is great. But it has been diluted into Taco Bell commercial quality. There are few inspired artists currently in pop music. Just a bunch of puppets promoting fashion and dance more than music. IMO pop music needs to be fixed more than rock needs to be “saved” at the moment.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #39
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

FYI: Article that addresses some of the same issues: Why there will never be another Metallica

https://www.metalsucks.net/2014/03/20...big-metallica/
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:48 AM   #40
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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Ok guys my post had nothing to do with fashion. I have said the same thing about this topic over the years that I am going to say right now – because it’s the truth. It’s the most important point about this topic and this site has usually ignored it or spun the topic back to what the individual wants.

The music business is an industry. Where this industry decides to invest their money dictates American mainstream music culture. This can be a good thing or this can be a bad thing. But it exists as the reality of our music culture as a society.

Since 1999 much of the money has stopped flowing towards rock acts. They no longer want to invest in a new rock bands development, recording, touring or promotion that heavily. Rock bands are getting roughly 15% of the investments they used to get from the 60s-90s. Therefore rocks representation in the mainstream music scene is only 15% of what it was during the decades when rock was a heavy hitter. This is clearly evident in the charts and the tours. Is rock dead? No – neither is swing music for that matter. But they have something in common now.

It doesn’t mean there are not still millions of rock fans in America. It doesn’t mean there are not still hundreds of rock bands – though they are not funded like they were in the past. In fact almost all of the funding for rock acts goes toward acts that are 30 years old! So basically the main investment for rock is to promote it to older people - not younger people. Follow the money and that will tell you if rock is still healthy. ATM rock is not a large part of the American music scenes. (In Europe they still invest heavily in rock acts).

We can all have our own opinions on this topic. But business is still business and still dictates the music industry. And to be honest I have become more disillusioned with the craptastic pop that we now endure. Great pop is great. But it has been diluted into Taco Bell commercial quality. There are few inspired artists currently in pop music. Just a bunch of puppets promoting fashion and dance more than music. IMO pop music needs to be fixed more than rock needs to be “saved” at the moment.
Who the F*ck cares about music industry pushing crap. They have been doing that every chance they get since the 70's. The question is rock music in good shape. The answer is yes even without the help of the big companies. Just note the stats you are promoting change year to year and the music industry isn't completely turning away from the indie rock scene, electronica, pop rock and alternative rock. Once again the major festival promoters are all in on those genre for their festivals and music conferences are about those genre too. There is no pop super festival in America. If rock is so irrelevant and had to rely on old acts they would be dying but they aren't they are thriving. By the way there are plenty of new rock acts being supported by the music industry now and I would bet it's more than 5 or 10 years ago.

I'm so sick of the tv thoughts on the subject it reminds me of republican radio talk shows and pushing their ideas like they are laws. Yeah tv and music industry push crap doesn't mean we all listen.

Lets at least get to where Bieber, Miley, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry are all headlining coachella before we start talking rock is dying. By the way I expect Katy and Lady Gaga will be headlining one of these festivals.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:29 PM   #41
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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FYI: Article that addresses some of the same issues: Why there will never be another Metallica

https://www.metalsucks.net/2014/03/20...big-metallica/
Ya that is an interesting read. I am not convinced that rock will never return to the spotlight. But it will require the return of the indie label to accomplish it.

The death of the independent record label has a lot to do with where we currently are. It was usually the indie labels (meaning not one of the 5 major labels) that took chances and invested in rock. This became so successful they forced the majors to compete. But since the early 70s the money at the majors began buying every indie label they could. By the end of the 90s they owned nearly every indie label that had any influence.

Then came Napster – the perfect excuse. Napster gave the majors the perfect excuse to downsize and close all their indie label holdings. This was presented to the public as the music industry failing, losing money, etc. That was not the case. In reality they were just consolidating a lot of properties they didn’t want or need. And a lot of music professionals lost their jobs.

Now the major labels make as much profit as they ever have while not having indie labels to compete with. They now have complete control of mainstream music. (There is a great line in “Almost Famous” from Lester Bangs about “its too bad you missed out on rock – the war is over and they won. And they will strangle everything we love about it until it becomes an industry of cool”). Where Lester was wrong is it took them another 25 years to secure the industry.

Hightea I understand that you don’t care about the music industry and that’s fine. But an industry is driven by money and that is how it will play out. Yes you can go to torrents or YouTube or wherever to find a talented club band. That is a good thing. At least on a personal level we can find satisfaction. Rock is not dead – music doesn’t die. But in 20 years your kids won’t find a classic rock site with more than 5 members discussing the most of the new bands you currently listen to. The beauty of being in the mainstream is that it creates a shared music culture – the very reason we all come to this site. The one thing we all have in common.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:40 PM   #42
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

I don't disagree with what you said Butch.
The question isn't is rock mainstream stream or as strong influence as the classic rock days. yes kids have lots of other things to do, but I don't see the festival, concert and club scene in any major city changing anytime soon.

In regards to the next big band who knows? I look at the music industry as too diverse and too many bands for a mega band and I'm not the music industry who keep
looking at it that way. There are plenty of mid sized bands that play large venues just like any time before.
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:43 PM   #43
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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Nobody is suggesting there are not rock acts still working. We are suggesting that the rock culture is no longer mainstream and no longer a major influence on society.
.
Of course not. It's baby boomer music and the baby boomers are getting old. Expecting kids to listen to the same music that not only their parents, but by this point even their grandparents listened to is just bizarre. I had no interest in Frank Sinatra when I was a teenager so why should a teenager today care about Led Zeppelin? Or worse some third generation replica of Led Zeppelin? This isn't some tragedy, it's the way life works. Do I think modern pop is crap? Of course I do, that's kind of the point. 50 year old guys aren't supposed to like it. I'm pretty sure if the music business today was run exactly the same way it was run in the 70's and 80's, we'd have no new rock music at all. Thank God the only way to get heard isn't getting signed by one of 5 or 6 major labels anymore, because those labels would not be putting their money behind bands playing versions of a 50 year old music form.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:00 PM   #44
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While it's true that many of us may be stuck in the past (perhaps even the very distant past), it doesn't necessarily follow that we're misinformed or incorrect on this particular issue. Check out this thread:

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?t=47724

Physical music sales are way down. I see that as a bad thing for musicians, and thus music.
Because as everyone knows, before physical sales of recordings were possible, there was no music.
Well there was no rock music, and that's the question that's being asked. And do you deny that the availability of the revenue stream generated by physical sales wasn't of key importance in rock's explosive growth from the fifties onward?
That's the business model that existed in the 50's. It no longer exists. Kids are not going to buy CD's any more then they are going to trade in their Android phones for a corded land line. Time marches on. Get on or get left behind. Bands already are and will have to continue to find new revenue streams. But he days of Don Henley (and Don Henley's manager, Don Henley's agent and the A&R guy who signed Don Henley) doing coke off a hooker's ass in his own 747 are probably gone.

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I'm too busy listening to new music to get bogged down in this stupid conversation again. If you want to stick your head in the sand be my guest.
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But not too busy to put your brain in neutral and respond with a condescending remark. Don't forget that I'm very capable of responding in kind. If that's the way you want to continue, be my guest. I'm more than willing to play.

You haven't been around much foxy, this is a dead horse that's been well abused. Sorry to get snippy, but I'm a little sick of hearing it.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:56 PM   #45
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No
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:36 PM   #46
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FYI: Article that addresses some of the same issues: Why there will never be another Metallica

https://www.metalsucks.net/2014/03/20...big-metallica/
Hopefully you're not attempting to imply that rock is in bad shape because your favourite genre as exemplified by Metallica is no longer popular with the younger set. That argument would simply be out to lunch.

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Old 03-24-2014, 02:23 PM   #47
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Exclamation Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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We are suggesting that the rock culture is no longer mainstream and no longer a major influence on society. The same thing happened to disco in the 80s. It was still there - but it existed the shadows of society. Rock now lives in the shadows. Heck it cant even compete with twerking Disney bimbos who dont have a drop of musical talent.
A couple things:

1. While the "music" of those twerking Disney bimbos simply annoys me, I'm not sure that it's not rock music. Rock has always been pop music, but all pop isn't rock. But just because I can't abide the dance pop to which my sales assistant listens doesn't mean it's not rock. I really don't know where to draw the line. I'm confident that Lawrence Welk and Bing Crosby weren't rock artists, but Avril Lavigne? Miley Cyrus? Beyonce? Justin Bieber? Backstreet Boys? Tupac? 2 Live Crew? Michael Jackson? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't categorically state that none of them are rock artists though.

2. In saying that rock culture is no longer mainstream, you seem to be implying that rock was once a monolithic force. But it was never so. It was fragmented right from the start. When Bill Haley & the Comets, Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis exploded onto the scene in the fifties, they weren't universally embraced by teens. Some preferred do-wop. When the British Invasion began, some teens resisted. They preferred the now crooning Elvis, the Everly Brothers, Roy Orbison, Gene Pitney, Neil Sedaka, Paul Anka, Bobby Vinton, the Crystals and other girl groups, etc. Don't believe me? Check the top 100 hit charts in 1964 and 1965. Other older teens rebelled against the long hairs who appealed to the fan magazine crowd by embracing Motown and other types of soul. When the Beatles and other bands started to chart new horizons with more sophisticated album oriented rock in the 1966-67 period, younger teens turned to Herman's Hermits and the Monkees. I know. I talked to a neighbourhood girl in grade nine at the time who said that "nobody" in her high school liked Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Like I say, just check the charts year by year. They tell the story.

When bands such as the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull and King Crimson took rock in new edgier directions, casual teen listeners were bewildered if not alienated. I was the only one in my class in 1968 who embraced Their Satanic Majesties Request, Beggars Banquet and Led Zeppelin's first album, because I was the all too serious intellectual kid! All the other kids just thought this stuff was over the top. I mean you couldn't dance to it. And of course it was over the top. It therefore ended up stretching the boundaries of rock and thus pop music, and in a couple of years Led Zeppelin were very mainstream indeed.

Meanwhile, I embraced the flowering of progressive rock in the late sixties - everything from the Beatles' and Stones' more sophisticated offerings to the Doors, Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Jefferson Airplane, Vanilla Fudge, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Nice, Ten Tears After, Procol Harum, Spirit, Jethro Tull, Santana, King Crimson, etc. I sneered at the poppier top forty stuff. Only progressive rock by serious musicians for me. And to punctuate the point I took up buying classical records as well.

Within ten years though I looked back at myself - and laughed! I mean how incredibly uptight, even stuffy I'd been! I hadn't allowed myself to like poppier top forty hits at the time. So by 1980 I was buying up compilations by all the musicians at which I'd once sneered, everyone from the Dave Clark Five to Herman's Hermits, the Monkees, Turtles, Grass Roots, Tommy James & the Shondells, Dixie Cups, Ronettes, Supremes, Four Tops, Otis Redding and James Brown. If I wanted to hear Donna Summer's moaning or KC & the Sunshine Band's chanting, I didn't stop myself. Because you see with maturity came the realization that music doesn't have to be complex or sophisticated to be good. It just has to please me and put a smile on my face. And that's how I still define good music today.



The problem is that much of what's popular these days makes me frown. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or me though doesn't mean rock isn't in good shape. A different argument is needed to demonstrate that point.

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Old 03-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #48
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Exclamation Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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It's baby boomer music and the baby boomers are getting old. Expecting kids to listen to the same music that not only their parents, but by this point even their grandparents listened to is just bizarre. I had no interest in Frank Sinatra when I was a teenager so why should a teenager today care about Led Zeppelin? Or worse some third generation replica of Led Zeppelin? This isn't some tragedy, it's the way life works. Do I think modern pop is crap? Of course I do, that's kind of the point. 50 year old guys aren't supposed to like it.
What troubles me is I can't even put my finger on why I dislike it! And it's not even a conscious thing. I'll find myself frowning in the drug store, and I'll realize it's because some Beyoncé or whatever dance pop is being played. I try not to snarl at my sales assistant who has her radio tuned to some soft rock station playing dance pop because I remember that my Neanderthal father despised all my music. I just shake my head and bite my tongue. Arrrrggghhhhh!!!



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Kids are not going to buy CD's any more then they are going to trade in their Android phones for a corded land line. Time marches on. Get on or get left behind.
I got left behind years ago and I have no inclination to try to catch up these days either. The little vetches and their soccer moms just better be careful that the ringing of their cursed cell phones doesn't disturb me during a movie.

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Old 03-24-2014, 03:07 PM   #49
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The problem is that much of what's popular these days makes me frown. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or me though doesn't mean rock isn't in good shape. A different argument is needed to demonstrate that point.
This.

I find a few albums per year that I like (and I usually have to dig to find those) but I pass on the majority. It's not that rock is dying but personally it's less appealing.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:29 PM   #50
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The problem is that much of what's popular these days makes me frown. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or me though doesn't mean rock isn't in good shape. A different argument is needed to demonstrate that point.
This.

I find a few albums per year that I like (and I usually have to dig to find those) but I pass on the majority. It's not that rock is dying but personally it's less appealing.
You sure that it's that you don't care anymore and just happy with the music you already have?
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:29 PM   #51
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I'm happy with the music I have but like most music lovers am never content. Discovering great new music is always exciting but sometimes the hunt isn't so thrilling.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:10 PM   #52
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

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We are suggesting that the rock culture is no longer mainstream and no longer a major influence on society. The same thing happened to disco in the 80s. It was still there - but it existed the shadows of society. Rock now lives in the shadows. Heck it cant even compete with twerking Disney bimbos who dont have a drop of musical talent.
A couple things:

1. While the "music" of those twerking Disney bimbos simply annoys me, I'm not sure that it's not rock music. Rock has always been pop music, but all pop isn't rock. But just because I can't abide the dance pop to which my sales assistant listens doesn't mean it's not rock. I really don't know where to draw the line. I'm confident that Lawrence Welk and Bing Crosby weren't rock artists, but Avril Lavigne? Miley Cyrus? Beyonce? Justin Bieber? Backstreet Boys? Tupac? 2 Live Crew? Michael Jackson? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't categorically state that none of them are rock artists though.

2. In saying that rock culture is no longer mainstream, you seem to be implying that rock was once a monolithic force. But it was never so. It was fragmented right from the start. When Bill Haley & the Comets, Elvis Presley and Jerry Lee Lewis exploded onto the scene in the fifties, they weren't universally embraced by teens. Some preferred do-wop. When the British Invasion began, some teens resisted. They preferred the now crooning Elvis, the Everly Brothers, Roy Orbison, Gene Pitney, Neil Sedaka, Paul Anka, Bobby Vinton, the Crystals and other girl groups, etc. Don't believe me? Check the top 100 hit charts in 1964 and 1965. Other older teens rebelled against the long hairs who appealed to the fan magazine crowd by embracing Motown and other types of soul. When the Beatles and other bands started to chart new horizons with more sophisticated album oriented rock in the 1966-67 period, younger teens turned to Herman's Hermits and the Monkees. I know. I talked to a neighbourhood girl in grade nine at the time who said that "nobody" in her high school liked Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Like I say, just check the charts year by year. They tell the story.

When bands such as the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull and King Crimson took rock in new edgier directions, casual teen listeners were bewildered if not alienated. I was the only one in my class in 1968 who embraced Their Satanic Majesties Request, Beggars Banquet and Led Zeppelin's first album, because I was the all too serious intellectual kid! All the other kids just thought this stuff was over the top. I mean you couldn't dance to it. And of course it was over the top. It therefore ended up stretching the boundaries of rock and thus pop music, and in a couple of years Led Zeppelin were very mainstream indeed.

Meanwhile, I embraced the flowering of progressive rock in the late sixties - everything from the Beatles' and Stones' more sophisticated offerings to the Doors, Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Jefferson Airplane, Vanilla Fudge, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Nice, Ten Tears After, Procol Harum, Spirit, Jethro Tull, Santana, King Crimson, etc. I sneered at the poppier top forty stuff. Only progressive rock by serious musicians for me. And to punctuate the point I took up buying classical records as well.

Within ten years though I looked back at myself - and laughed! I mean how incredibly uptight, even stuffy I'd been! I hadn't allowed myself to like poppier top forty hits at the time. So by 1980 I was buying up compilations by all the musicians at which I'd once sneered, everyone from the Dave Clark Five to Herman's Hermits, the Monkees, Turtles, Grass Roots, Tommy James & the Shondells, Dixie Cups, Ronettes, Supremes, Four Tops, Otis Redding and James Brown. If I wanted to hear Donna Summer's moaning or KC & the Sunshine Band's chanting, I didn't stop myself. Because you see with maturity came the realization that music doesn't have to be complex or sophisticated to be good. It just has to please me and put a smile on my face. And that's how I still define good music today.



The problem is that much of what's popular these days makes me frown. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or me though doesn't mean rock isn't in good shape. A different argument is needed to demonstrate that point.

Ya those are faur points. I dont agree with all of them but they are worth stating.
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:56 AM   #53
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Re: Is rock in good shape today? Simple yes or no.

I wonder what the pandemic has done to the "health" of rock music.

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