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View Poll Results: Downloading = stealing?
Yes 13 35.14%
No 17 45.95%
I have a sad-ass excuse for why MY downloading isn't stealing - tick this box 7 18.92%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2009, 07:05 PM   #19
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

in my mind and opinion, its obviously stealing, a very minor level of stealing but still stealing, because its someone's creative property

but imo, the debate about file sharing isn't whether it's considered stealing or not, but if this low level of stealing is justified, and i consider it to be justified
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:48 PM   #20
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Personally I somehow didn't get into that "download" mentality. All in all I've downloaded very little; mainly a few live bootleg recordings (another subject altogether, I know), songs that the artist themselves put out there for ppl to have and odd little rarities that otherwise can't be found/bought.

As far as downloading an album that's available at the local Best Buy or for order on Amazon or other means for purchase: NO!!!!!!
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:48 PM   #21
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Downloading is (still) legal in the Netherlands, making my choice obvious. I have downloaded lots of obscure prog you never see in shops, and I have bought at least 20 CD's of bands I had not even heard of before I downloaded them.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:13 PM   #22
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

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I have downloaded lots of obscure prog you never see in shops
Yeah here is another point. Old out of print and impossible to buy albums another reason I don't consider it stealing.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:07 AM   #23
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

I think this whole poll is like a loaded question...Flip obviously has an opinion and is looking for a way to vent it, regardless of the fact that we have been over all this before.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:18 AM   #24
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

No
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:14 AM   #25
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

I voted #3 because shared file downloading is like a test drive before you buy a new car. And #3 is another reason that this poll is like a loaded question...sad ass because your opinion is different from that of the poll-meister.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:44 AM   #26
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

There is no clear cut answer. Some artist don't care and even make their songs available to download. There are also a lot of other variables to consider so I don't see it as a simple yes or no answer.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:57 AM   #27
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
There is no clear cut answer. Some artist don't care and even make their songs available to download. There are also a lot of other variables to consider so I don't see it as a simple yes or no answer.
Not that many variables. If the artist puts his music on a website and says, "Hey, download this!", it's obviously not stealing. If someone takes a commercially available CD and converts it to Mp3 and uploads it to a Bit Torrent and you download it, then that's stealing. Or, if you wanna split hairs, it's unauthorized duplicating and illegal downloading.

Basically, if the party who holds the copyright says you can do it, it's OK. If they don't, it's not OK.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:05 AM   #28
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
There is no clear cut answer. Some artist don't care and even make their songs available to download. There are also a lot of other variables to consider so I don't see it as a simple yes or no answer.
Not that many variables. If the artist puts his music on a website and says, "Hey, download this!", it's obviously not stealing. If someone takes a commercially available CD and converts it to Mp3 and uploads it to a Bit Torrent and you download it, then that's stealing. Or, if you wanna split hairs, it's unauthorized duplicating and illegal downloading.

Basically, if the party who holds the copyright says you can do it, it's OK. If they don't, it's not OK.
Ah but there are variables. What if someone downloads an album to see if they like it and then decide to buy it. Is that really stealing if they bought the record after downloading it?
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:20 AM   #29
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
There is no clear cut answer. Some artist don't care and even make their songs available to download. There are also a lot of other variables to consider so I don't see it as a simple yes or no answer.
Not that many variables. If the artist puts his music on a website and says, "Hey, download this!", it's obviously not stealing. If someone takes a commercially available CD and converts it to Mp3 and uploads it to a Bit Torrent and you download it, then that's stealing. Or, if you wanna split hairs, it's unauthorized duplicating and illegal downloading.

Basically, if the party who holds the copyright says you can do it, it's OK. If they don't, it's not OK.
Ah but there are variables. What if someone downloads an album to see if they like it and then decide to buy it. Is that really stealing if they bought the record after downloading it?
That just means that they did the right thing after having done the wrong thing. I suppose that if one is seriously planning to buy everything one downloads then that mitigates the problem, but why not just buy it anyway and spare one's self the risk?

I completely understand the idea that people can and often do download all or part of an album and then fall in love with it and buy it. Some savvy artists have long been making a few representative tracks available for download on their websites hoping that it will increase sales, and that makes perfect sense, just like giving away free samples of cheese or chips in the market to encourage sales. The problem is when people take it upon themselves to give other people's work away.

If one is really serious about using the Internet to explore new music, just go to any artists MySpace page and there will be streaming music there that you can play as many times as you want. As I said in another thread, you don't need your own personal Mp3 copy of music in order to hear it and develop an appreciation for it. There's ways to do these things within the law. Problem is people don't want to care about the law, they just want what they want when they want it.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:32 AM   #30
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
There is no clear cut answer. Some artist don't care and even make their songs available to download. There are also a lot of other variables to consider so I don't see it as a simple yes or no answer.
Not that many variables. If the artist puts his music on a website and says, "Hey, download this!", it's obviously not stealing. If someone takes a commercially available CD and converts it to Mp3 and uploads it to a Bit Torrent and you download it, then that's stealing. Or, if you wanna split hairs, it's unauthorized duplicating and illegal downloading.

Basically, if the party who holds the copyright says you can do it, it's OK. If they don't, it's not OK.
Ah but there are variables. What if someone downloads an album to see if they like it and then decide to buy it. Is that really stealing if they bought the record after downloading it?
That just means that they did the right thing after having done the wrong thing. I suppose that if one is seriously planning to buy everything one downloads then that mitigates the problem, but why not just buy it anyway and spare one's self the risk?

I completely understand the idea that people can and often do download all or part of an album and then fall in love with it and buy it. Some savvy artists have long been making a few representative tracks available for download on their websites hoping that it will increase sales, and that makes perfect sense, just like giving away free samples of cheese or chips in the market to encourage sales. The problem is when people take it upon themselves to give other people's work away.

If one is really serious about using the Internet to explore new music, just go to any artists MySpace page and there will be streaming music there that you can play as many times as you want. As I said in another thread, you don't need your own personal Mp3 copy of music in order to hear it and develop an appreciation for it. There's ways to do these things within the law. Problem is people don't want to care about the law, they just want what they want when they want it.
It may not be worth it to buy hence test driving it first. Another problem with saying nothing should be available to download is that you are entitled to a backup for personal use. I know some people download albums they already have to have a backup or put on their MP3 player.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:43 AM   #31
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
It may not be worth it to buy hence test driving it first. Another problem with saying nothing should be available to download is that you are entitled to a backup for personal use. I know some people download albums they already have to have a backup or put on their MP3 player.
It's not a matter of "nothing being available for download", it's a matter of who makes what available. And I can't believe that it's significantly easier to download than it is to make a personal copy of one's own CD's with Foobar or EAC.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:44 AM   #32
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
It may not be worth it to buy hence test driving it first. Another problem with saying nothing should be available to download is that you are entitled to a backup for personal use. I know some people download albums they already have to have a backup or put on their MP3 player.
It's not a matter of "nothing being available for download", it's a matter of who makes what available. And I can't believe that it's significantly easier to download than it is to make a personal copy of one's own CD's with Foobar or EAC.
Believe it or not but not everyone knows how to rip an album. Sometimes the hardware might be a limiting factor as well. Here is an interesting article from Tom's Hardware on downloading.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Pirate-F...news-5001.html
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:02 AM   #33
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppboy View Post
Believe it or not but not everyone knows how to rip an album. Sometimes the hardware might be a limiting factor as well. Here is an interesting article from Tom's Hardware on downloading.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/Pirate-F...news-5001.html
Haven't read the article yet, but, huh? People can figure out Bit Torrent but can't rip a CD?

I'll tell on myself here and admit that I actually considered using a Bit Torrent to get some bootleg live recording a few years ago. I read over the instructions and said, "This is too much trouble." Never tried it again.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:04 AM   #34
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

Sometimes it takes less time to download than to rip depending on the hardware. It is also much less demanding on your computer.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:20 AM   #35
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

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Originally Posted by dkmonroe View Post

That just means that they did the right thing after having done the wrong thing. I suppose that if one is seriously planning to buy everything one downloads then that mitigates the problem, but why not just buy it anyway and spare one's self the risk?

However, with purchased music (and video), you buy it, you own it, even if it sucks.

Do you buy shoes or clothes without trying them on first?
Do you buy a car without trying it first?
Do you buy TVs or stereos without checking them out first?
Do you buy furniture couches or beds without sitting/lying on them first?

But with music, movies, etc, we don't get that option. Somehow I doubt that most people download 'stuff' with full intention of purchasing it later. Sure, some exceptions, but they are just that, the exception. I believe that at least some people download first, to check it out. If they like it, then they purchase.

Of course, there are others that download thousands of songs with zero intention of ever purchasing them, whereas the record companies and artists never would have gotten any money from these people in the first place. That being said, are is the recording industry -really- losing anything from these people?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:29 AM   #36
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Re: Downloading = stealing?

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I am able to sample parts or whole CD's at my stores.
I wish more stores did this.
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