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View Poll Results: Which band do you prefer?
Dave Clark Five 7 87.50%
Herman's Hermits 1 12.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-27-2021, 12:20 AM   #1
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Exclamation Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Which of these great British Invasion bands do you prefer? Why?

Dave Clark Five












Herman's Hermits











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Old 04-27-2021, 12:33 AM   #2
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

DC5 pretty handily for me
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Old 04-27-2021, 05:35 AM   #3
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Dave Clark Five

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Old 05-03-2021, 04:42 AM   #4
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

I always scratch my head when this pair were considered great examples of the British invasion. They were both cheesy pop groups. Hardly in the same league as the great British bands that emerged during that era.
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:36 AM   #5
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

If I have to choose one, it's the DC5, but honestly, I haven't listened to either band in over 50 years.
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Old 05-03-2021, 11:50 AM   #6
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

I'll take the DC5; I have their double disc compilation and I think a single disc would have done it for my tastes. On the other hand, I don't have a comp of HH's, but I think I have an LP on the shelf. Couldn't tell you which one without looking at a discography, though.

[goes and looks at discography, since getting out of my chair to go look is too much trouble]

THE BOTH SIDES OF HERMAN'S HERMITS. I liked "My Reservation's Been Confirmed" but couldn't hum a note of a song I didn't know by another artist, like "Bus Stop."

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Old 05-03-2021, 11:34 PM   #7
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

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Originally Posted by Black Night View Post
I always scratch my head when this pair were considered great examples of the British invasion. They were both cheesy pop groups.
Whether you like it or not, it's still a fact that they were the two leading bands after the Beatles in the first eighteen months beginning January 1964 of the British Invasion of North America. Had you been in North America at the time or even taken the trouble to check the Billboard hit charts from 1964 to early 1965, you wouldn't find their exemplary status at all surprising.

In fact on the strength of five straight singles making the top five on the hit charts (at least in my handy CHUM Chart Book) between April and August 1964, the Dave Clark Five even rivaled the Beatles in popularity in North America until about the spring of 1965:











I still remember a phone-in poll conducted by my local Top Forty station CHLO in 1964 matching the two bands against each other which the Beatles won by a margin of only about 65% to 35%.

Meanwhile Herman's Hermits had two #2 hits followed by two #1 hits between November 1964 and May 1965.

Any later accounts that you might have read that jump immediately from the Beatles to the Rolling Stones as leaders of the first wave of the British Invasion are naught but historical revisionism. While the Stones were already the second most popular band after the Beatles in the U.K. in 1964, they didn't stake that claim in North America until (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction was released in June 1965. Time Is on My Side was the Stones only top ten single (actually #6) in the United States in 1964. (Although Time Is on My Side didn't manage to make CHUM's chart at all, Heart of Stone made it to #1 on the CHUM chart in March 1965.) Quite simply the Stones weren't even among the top five British Invasion bands in North America (behind Gerry & the Pacemakers, the Animals, the Kinks and perhaps even the Searchers as well) until the spring of 1965 when they really got rolling.

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Old 05-04-2021, 04:21 PM   #8
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

I rank my favourite songs by these two bands as follows:

1. Over and Over - Dave Clark Five (tie)
1. No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits (tie)
3. There's a Kind of Hush (All Over the World) - Herman's Hermits
4. Everybody Knows (You Said Goodbye) - Dave Clark Five
5. Dandy - Herman's Hermits
6. Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits
7. This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits
8. I'm Henry VIII, I Am - Herman's Hermits
9. Catch Us if You Can - Dave Clark Five
10. Because - Dave Clark Five

Herman's Hermits gets the decision and therefore my vote.

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Old 05-04-2021, 07:41 PM   #9
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Just a side note. One of my favorite British comedies was 'The Vicar of Dibley' (it ran on and off from November, 1994 to January 1, 2007). One of the funniest characters on the show was actor Trevor Peacock. If you know the show he played Jim Trott (the guy who always answered a question with, "No, No, No, No, YES". Sadly he recently passed away on March 8, 2021. To my surprise while reading his history I discovered that he wrote the song "Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter". This song went to #1 in the United States in May 1965. R.I.P.

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Old 05-06-2021, 08:22 AM   #10
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhound View Post
Whether you like it or not, it's still a fact that they were the two leading bands after the Beatles in the first eighteen months beginning January 1964 of the British Invasion of North America. Had you been in North America at the time or even taken the trouble to check the Billboard hit charts from 1964 to early 1965, you wouldn't find their exemplary status at all surprising:

In fact on the strength of five straight singles making the top five on the hit charts (at least in my handy CHUM Chart Book) between April and August 1964, the Dave Clark Five even rivaled the Beatles' in popularity in North America until about the spring of 1965:











I still remember a phone-in poll conducted by my local Top Forty station CHLO in 1964 matching the two bands against each other which the Beatles won by a margin of only about 65% to 35%.

Meanwhile Herman's Hermits had two #2 hits followed by two #1 hits between November 1964 and May 1965.

Any later accounts that you might have read that jump immediately from the Beatles to the Rolling Stones as leaders of the first wave of the British Invasion are naught but historical revisionism. While the Stones were already the second most popular band after the Beatles in the U.K. in 1964, they didn't stake that claim in North America until (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction was released in June 1965. Time Is on My Side was the Stones only top ten single (actually #6) in the United States in 1964. (Although Time Is on My Side didn't manage to make CHUM's chart at all, Heart of Stone made it to #1 on the CHUM chart in March 1965.) Quite simply the Stones weren't even among the top five British Invasion bands in North America (behind Gerry & the Pacemakers, the Animals, the Kinks and perhaps even the Searchers as well) until the spring of 1965 when they really got rolling.


I know they had huge success, but I still dont understand why, because they were not very good. The timing was right for them, because whenever some giants of rock/pop appear, a bandwagon follows where very ordinary groups get success on the coat tails of the genuinely good. It happens with every phenomenon.


Over here in the UK, anyone formed in Liverpool was suddenly in the spotlight after The Beatles, and most sunk without trace in a couple of years.


When punk emerged, every new group tried their hand at it, had short term success, and disappeared.


No British acts had ever had success in the US before The Beatles, and based on them, there was a clamour for more.


The great bands of that era are still held in esteem, but who knows more than a handful of songs from this pair who timed it right?


It was very bizarre, even to the extent that The Who toured with Hermans Hermits, and opened for them. I dont think anyone who likes their rock music would ever consider the pair to be in the same league.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:06 AM   #11
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

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It was very bizarre, even to the extent that The Who toured with Hermans Hermits, and opened for them. I dont think anyone who likes their rock music would ever consider the pair to be in the same league.
That is absolutely understandable because the Who were relative latecomers. They didn't arrive on the scene until the other bands mentioned in this thread were already well established hit makers on the charts. The Who's first album, My Generation, didn't hit stores until December 1965 in the U.K. and April 1966 in North America. Their second album, Happy Jack, wasn't released until April 1967 in North America. The Happy Jack single from late in 1966 was their first hit in North America and even that only got to #24 on the Billboard chart (though it reached #1 in May 1967 on Toronto's CHUM radio chart).

So it was during the Who's very first tour of North America in the summer of 1967 that they opened for Herman's Hermits who were then touring North America for the seventh time. Of course Herman's Hermits were going to be the feature act. With a whopping sixteen Top 35 hits in the States including eight Top 5 hits with two of those having reached #1, Herman's Hermits were the established hit-makers and it was their name on the bill that sold the tickets.

This was also when the Who were still engaging in the gimmick of destroying their instruments after every performance, something which was not exactly going to gain them credibility with serious music fans.

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Old 05-08-2021, 11:41 AM   #12
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Interesting that the Dave Clark Five played two shows at Treasure Island Gardens in my home town of London, Ontario on 3 November 1964. The capacity of Treasure Island Gardens was 4500-5000 for hockey games but I'm not sure what a concert configuration would have enabled. Although at the age of twelve I simply had no interest in attending the shows myself, by all accounts they were well received by London's young music fans and went off without a hitch.



Meanwhile the Rolling Stones had released The Last Time and Play With Fire as a double-sided single in February 1965 and by the spring of 1965 their popularity was really starting to burgeon in North America. The Rolling Stones then played Treasure Island Gardens on 26 April 1965 before about 3000 fans although once again I had no interest in attending. Just as well since their show turned into such a wild mob scene that the police cut the power about fifteen minutes into their set while the Stones were playing It's Off the Hook. The fans then rioted and did some damage to Treasure Island Gardens. Accounts of this show are mentioned in many Stones' biographies/histories.

While the Stones promised to make it up to their London and area fans by returning for another engagement, they've still not fulfilled their promise.

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Old 05-17-2021, 10:04 PM   #13
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

The popularity of the Stones in North America was already surging in early 1965. The aforementioned single Time Is on My Side was instrumental in gaining them an appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show on October 25th:



Following the show Ed Sullivan reputedly said “I promise you they’ll never be back on our show. It took me seventeen years to build this show and I’m not going to have it destroyed in a matter of weeks.” But after having a chance to look at the ratings he sent the Stones this message "Received hundreds of letters from parents complaining about you, but thousands from teenagers saying how much they enjoyed your performance."

The Stones then appeared on the T.A.M.I. Show which was being made into a concert film on October 29th:



When the T.A.M.I. Show was released to theatres on December 31st, their popularity got another huge push in North America. I saw the T.A.M.I. Show at a theater in downtown Detroit in the company of my older sister in early January 1965.

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Old 09-14-2021, 10:34 AM   #14
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Quote:
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I always scratch my head when this pair were considered great examples of the British invasion. They were both cheesy pop groups.
Because the first wave of the British Invasion until late in 1964 was all about cheesy pop groups. What do you think the Beatles were in 1963-64? But there was nothing wrong with those cheesy pop groups, especially not in the context of the time.

Quote:
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Hardly in the same league as the great British bands that emerged during that era.
Your definition of era must encompass years and not just months but given the pace of change in pop music in the 1963-1968 period, it should only be months. It's All Over Now by the Rolling Stones wasn't released until June 1964. House of the Rising Sun by the Animals wasn't released in the States until August 1964.

Quote:
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I know they had huge success, but I still dont understand why.... The timing was right for them, because whenever some giants of rock/pop appear, a bandwagon follows where very ordinary groups get success on the coat tails of the genuinely good. It happens with every phenomenon.
You say you don't understand why, but then you go on to explain it very clearly.

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I know they had huge success, but I still dont understand why, because they were not very good.
How can you say they weren't very good though? That's where we actually disagree.

They were very good indeed in the context of the time. You're a bit young to have been a record buying music fan in 1963-64 so you're just looking back and critiquing in retrospect now.

Interesting that I didn't start buying records myself until the summer of 1967 and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was my first record purchase. As a studious young fellow at the time, I would only buy LPs by those I regarded as serious musicians. I therefore sneered at the cheesy pop artists such as the Monkees, Dave Clark Five, Herman's Hermits, Paul Revere & the Raiders, the Motown artists and soul in general. But within ten years or so I was looking back at the music snob I'd been in high school and laughing at my younger self. Music didn't need to be by "serious" musicians to be good. If a piece made me want to turn up the volume in my 1973 Dodge Charger with the Pioneer 6x9 speakers, it was good! And a number of the tracks by the Dave Clark Five and Herman's Hermits passed that standard. Case closed.

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Old 09-15-2021, 11:51 AM   #15
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Exclamation Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

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It was very bizarre, even to the extent that The Who toured with Hermans Hermits, and opened for them.

Speaking of opening acts, my books on the history of the Rolling Stones have pictures of all kinds of concert bills/posters from 1963-64 showing the Stones as opening acts for better known performers at the time. Here are a few I lifted from the net:







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Old 09-18-2021, 11:33 AM   #16
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If I have to choose one, it's the DC5, but honestly, I haven't listened to either band in over 50 years.

While I very rarely listen to either band although I have a few of their LPs in my record cabinet, I would much rather listen to either band than to many of the big name bands from the mid-1970's onward. I hardly like anything by many of the heavy metal, prog, arena rock, punk, hair metal and grunge bands that cropped up in the last 25 years of the twentieth century.


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Old 09-18-2021, 12:40 PM   #17
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhound View Post
Because the first wave of the British Invasion until late in 1964 was all about cheesy pop groups. What do you think the Beatles were in 1963-64? But there was nothing wrong with those cheesy pop groups, especially not in the context of the time.



Your definition of era must encompass years and not just months but given the pace of change in pop music in the 1963-1968 period, it should only be months. It's All Over Now by the Rolling Stones wasn't released until June 1964. House of the Rising Sun by the Animals wasn't released in the States until August 1964.



You say you don't understand why, but then you go on to explain it very clearly.



How can you say they weren't very good though? That's where we actually disagree.

They were very good indeed in the context of the time. You're a bit young to have been a record buying music fan in 1963-64 so you're just looking back and critiquing in retrospect now.

Interesting that I didn't start buying records myself until the summer of 1967 and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was my first record purchase. As a studious young fellow at the time, I would only buy LPs by those I regarded as serious musicians. I therefore sneered at the cheesy pop artists such as the Monkees, Dave Clark Five, Herman's Hermits, Paul Revere & the Raiders, the Motown artists and soul in general. But within ten years or so I was looking back at the music snob I'd been in high school and laughing at my younger self. Music didn't need to be by "serious" musicians to be good. If a piece made me want to turn up the volume in my 1973 Dodge Charger with the Pioneer 6x9 speakers, it was good! And a number of the tracks by the Dave Clark Five and Herman's Hermits passed that standard. Case closed.


You prove my point that they weren't very good when you list Henry the 8th in the top ten songs between them. It was drivel. They did a few decent pop songs, but they were nowhere near the Beatles, The Stones, The Animals, The kinks, or others that never made it over there during that era, such as The Hollies.


I do remember that time, although i was quite young, and I could recognise the difference in quality between those two, and the others I mention.


Being popular, on the back of demand for more Beatles like groups doesn't make them good, but they were great teenybop fodder, as many since have been, who have also disappeared, with no real legacy. I would struggle to name 10 songs from either group, let alone good ones, and ther inclusion of Henry the 8th is confirmation of what they were about.


If you like them, fair enough, but lets not pretend they were special in any way. They were lucky.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:01 AM   #18
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Re: Dave Clark Five vs. Herman's Hermits!

I had to laugh at the cover of "The Dave Clark Five vs. The Beatles" posted above, where Dave Says "I'll duel with Ringo". Dave Clark didn't even play on most of the DC Five hits; they used a session drummer. He couldn't carry Ringo's tea towel.
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