Progressive Rock...?

[dr wu]

Is there a progressive rock thread or sub forum.....?
I'm a fan of classic rock being an old timer but over the years prog has become my go to genre.
I tried to join the 'original classic rock' forum but no one ever confirmed my membership even though my user name came upon the board I received no confirmation email, I even e-mailed them..no answer at all. So I joined here but so far no response here either to my post in the 'welcome' area.
Forums simply aren't what they used to be.....

[Foxhound]

1. This board is actually the successor to the original Classic Rock Forums. Dwight launched the original in 2001 or so. But for whatever reason that remains undisclosed Dwight then abruptly closed it down in January 2005. Some of the major posters including Zeppboy took it upon themselves to relaunch the original board as this one, CRF2. Almost all the members of Classic Rock Forums rejoined CRF2.

In the meantime, Dwight had done nothing to "protect" the name Classic Rock Forums. Shaggy therefore seized upon this oversight as a business opportunity and launched a new Classic Rock Forums that remains in operation to this day.

Shaggy's Classic Rock Forums wasn't very busy originally and activity had dwindled to not much more than a dozen or so posts per week by August 2009. At that point Flower and Hepcat decided to see if they could rejuvenate Classic Rock Forums with their own efforts. Then in October 2009 Shaggy lured Magic and Lord Grendel from MuzicForums to act as mods on Classic Rock Forums and do their best to use their contacts to spur activity. These efforts succeeded and activity on Classic Rock Forums mushroomed over the following year.

But Flower, Hepcat and I were all banned on Classic Rock Forums in September 2010 due to political differences with Magic and Lord Grendel stemming largely from a certain specific member of Classic Rock Forums being allowed to espouse gay causes/activities. I still resent this because a thread I had started on the Rolling Stones to which I was adding every second or third day was deleted! Hepcat's extensive thread on the Doors suffered the same fate. Other than spite I can think of no reason why threads with so much quality content would have been deleted

Meanwhile Zeppboy and some of the other leading posters here on CRF2 lost interest and drifted away over time. With nobody working to keep this board active, posting dwindled in the face of competition from Facebook and other social media. Big Daddy Dave took over this board in May 2015.

With respect to the difficulty of joining Classic Rock Forums, there seems to be a bit of an authoritarian "protectivist" element within the management. My Balticboy persona was banned immediately on Classic Rock Forums in December 2019 for asking why this site, CRF2, was down for a few weeks! I guess the administrators thought that I must be a fifth columnist out to undermine their board or something.

2. What do you mean though by progressive rock? It seems that you're using the terms "progressive rock" and "prog" interchangeably. But in reality the progressive rock of the late sixties evolved into the prog of the seventies and somehow over the ensuing years the term prog came to be used in a more exclusive sense to refer strictly to the prog of the seventies. Here's a thread dealing with this phenomenon:

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

Originally Posted by Hepcat

I hate the way the word "prog" has evolved over the years.

When I was first exposed to the term "progressive rock" in the late sixties on Thomas Aquinas' show on CFPL in London, it was used to mean any rock music that had any pretentions beyond the most simplistic pop of artists such as Herman's Hermits, Petula Clark, Tommy James & the Shondells, Dave Clark Five, Beach Boys, James Brown, the Supremes, Wilson Pickett, Righteous Brothers, Monkees, Everly Brothers, Four Tops, Leslie Gore, etc. As such the music of groups as varied as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Traffic, Santana, Animals, King Crimson, Ten Years After, Jefferson Airplane, Bee Gees, Doors and the Kinks was all classified as progressive rock.

But prog on this board seems to be very narrowly applied to the art rock of such groups as Yes, Electric Light Orchestra, King Crimson, Vanilla Fudge, Pink Floyd, Rush, Moody Blues and Emerson, Lake & Palmer.

I'm not pleased with this development. I prefer the broader definition. What happened?

So what do you think of as "progressive rock"?

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

So I joined here but so far no response here either to my post in the 'welcome' area.

Speaking for myself I've not yet seen it. I did notice that you voted in a couple of polls I started though!

Originally Posted by dr wu

Forums simply aren't what they used to be.....

Truth! Facebook has really taken a toll on discussion forums.

[dr wu]

Thanks for the reply Foxhound,
So then the other original site simply didn't care that I tried to join...?
I even mailed them...and my user name came up but it said I could not post.
Well...that explains why others came here.

As to prog rock...I mean any and everything that could be considered prog rock: classic stuff like King Crimson, Yes, and Genesis...all the way to newer bands like Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Wobbler....etc.
I currently use the genres used by Progressive Rock Archives on line.
They tend to be pretty inclusive and even have many sub genres like Symphonic all the way to Prog related and Crossover prog.
I'm open minded about all of this but I tend to stick with the older bands from about '69 to '80 when I name them...though the 'experts' on Prog Archives have included many bands .
I was curious lf there was a dedicated thread for prog rock...I tend to be more interested in that the past few years.

[CrazyConnie]

Welcome dr wu!

Thank you Foxhound for answering his question.

[dwill123]

Progressive\Prog rock is my favorite of the 'rock' genres. I've been a fan since my first prog concert (ELP @ Fillmore East NYC) in 1971. Over the years it has splintered into some directions I myself don't understand (Metal for one) but everyone is entitled to their opinions. There are some who might question my favorite in the prog class, 'Fusion'.

[dr wu]

dwill123...your name is familiar ,,,,are you a PA member ..?

Is this the prog thread....? Or is there an actual dedicated thread?

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

Thanks for the reply Foxhound,
So then the other original site simply didn't care that I tried to join...?
I even mailed them...and my user name came up but it said I could not post.

Certainly seems that way, but keep in mind that I don't/can't speak for them.

Originally Posted by dr wu

As to prog rock...I mean any and everything that could be considered prog rock: classic stuff like King Crimson, Yes, and Genesis...all the way to newer bands like Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Wobbler....etc.
I currently use the genres used by Progressive Rock Archives on line.
They tend to be pretty inclusive and even have many sub genres like Symphonic all the way to Prog related and Crossover prog.
I'm open minded about all of this but I tend to stick with the older bands from about '69 to '80 when I name them...though the 'experts' on Prog Archives have included many bands.

Ahhhh, but the real dividing line between an inclusive definition of prog and an exclusive definition of prog is whether you would include these bands that originated in the 1960's within the prog genre:

Beatles
Rolling Stones
Yardbirds
Cream
Led Zeppelin
Traffic
John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers
Byrds
Lovin' Spoonful
Buffalo Springfield
Deep Purple
Santana
Animals
The Who
Ten Years After
Jefferson Airplane
Bee Gees
Doors
Kinks
Grateful Dead
Jeff Beck Group
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Spirit
Them
Spencer Davis Group
Donovan
(Peter Green's) Fleetwood Mac
Jimi Hendrix Experience
Butterfield Blues Band
Electric Prunes
Zombies
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Steppenwolf
Big Brother & the Holding Company

Include them and your using the inclusive progressive rock definition. Exclude them and you subscribe to a narrow definition of prog.

Originally Posted by dr wu

Is this the prog thread....? Or is there an actual dedicated thread?

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

Hepcat's thread would indeed be a viable candidate for the honour. But there have been dozens of threads dealing with progressive rock/prog over the years:

https://www.crf2.com/search.php?searchid=5966875

https://www.crf2.com/search.php?searchid=5968879

Whatever thread within you choose to post about prog can now de facto become the "official" prog thread including this one right here!

[dwill123]

Originally Posted by dr wu

dwill123...your name is familiar ,,,,are you a PA member ..?

Is this the prog thread....? Or is there an actual dedicated thread?

https://www.crf2.com/showthread.php?...hlight=Aquinas

Yes I am. A card carrying member since 2006.

Is this the prog thread....?
As long as I've been here (and that's been longer that I've been with PA) there really hasn't been a dedicated 'prog' thread. Discussions of a 'prog' nature are welcomed and come up from time to time in the various established threads. But to the best of my knowledge there is no dedicated 'prog' thread. The few that discuss 'prog' here are knowledgeable and offer good comments. Feel free to add your comments just don't expect anything that approaches the depth of PA.

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by Foxhound

Certainly seems that way, but keep in mind that I don't/can't speak for them.



Ahhhh, but the real dividing line between an inclusive definition of prog and an exclusive definition of prog is whether you would include these bands that originated in the 1960's within the prog genre:

Beatles
Rolling Stones
Yardbirds
Cream
Led Zeppelin
Traffic
John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers
Byrds
Lovin' Spoonful
Buffalo Springfield
Deep Purple
Santana
Animals
The Who
Ten Years After
Jefferson Airplane
Bee Gees
Doors
Kinks
Grateful Dead
Jeff Beck Group
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Spirit
Them
Spencer Davis Group
Donovan
(Peter Green's) Fleetwood Mac
Jimi Hendrix Experience
Butterfield Blues Band
Electric Prunes
Zombies
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Steppenwolf
Big Brother & the Holding Company

Include them and your using the inclusive progressive rock definition. Exclude them and you subscribe to a narrow definition of prog.



Hepcat's thread would indeed be a viable candidate for the honour. But there have been dozens of threads dealing with progressive rock/prog over the years:



Whatever thread within you choose to post about prog can now de facto become the "official" prog thread including this one right here!

Thanks for the thread links but if anyone wants to this can also be the 'de facto' prog thread.
Regarding your list above......some of those are not what I consider prog bands , some are proto prog and some could be prog...imho.
There are no hard and fast rules though and it becomes a matter of opinion...which is always said at PA. I own something by every band on your list and a few bands there I have all of their studio work and much of the live also.
Inclusive...exclusive...narrow definitions...sounds like semantics to me....an area I know well being an over educated old timer. Saying Lovin' Spoonful is prog compared to say Yes is like saying Johnny Cash is R & B compared to Aretha Franklin.
But...I will say that many rock bands have at various times snuck some progressive moves into their music, but not that much.

[dr wu]

Originally Posted by dwill123

Yes I am. A card carrying member since 2006.

Is this the prog thread....?
As long as I've been here (and that's been longer that I've been with PA) there really hasn't been a dedicated 'prog' thread. Discussions of a 'prog' nature are welcomed and come up from time to time in the various established threads. But to the best of my knowledge there is no dedicated 'prog' thread. The few that discuss 'prog' here are knowledgeable and offer good comments. Feel free to add your comments just don't expect anything that approaches the depth of PA.

I thought that was you...recognized the name.....I've looked around a little and I agree there is a more extensive and complete analysis of prog at PA. But it is specifically a prog rock site and this is not.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dwill123

I've been a fan since my first prog concert (ELP @ Fillmore East NYC) in 1971.

Cool! The very first concert by a big name group that I ever attended was one by the Nice at Centennial Hall in London, Ontario back in early 1970. Centennial Hall was an ideal venue since it was designed for concerts and with a seating capacity of only 1637 it was an "intimate" enough setting. At the tender age of eighteen I remember being very much impressed by both Keith Emerson's antics with the organ and by the amoeba light show framing the band on the stage.

[dr wu]

^If you saw the Nice in 1970...you must truly be an old foxhound.....


Looked at your profile....anyone who was a fan of Peter Green's Mac is ok in my book.
My best friend Bill is a big Green fan of those early Mac days.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

^If you saw the Nice in 1970...you must truly be an old foxhound.....

I'm not that old! Here's a picture of me from a few years back:



The big ugly pink one I'm with is The MAN.

[dr wu]

Heh...I look a little like you...except I'm bald and have a goatee type beard.
It must be awesome to live in New Orleans.

[Foxhound]

I now regard living anywhere on this side of the ground as a victory.

[dr wu]

One of my favorites.....appropos these days...?

[Foxhound]

If I had to pick, the date I'd mark for the start of "prog" (but not progressive rock) would be 10 March 1967 when Arnold Layne by Pink Floyd was released: